conditioning on raw ( water in take)

[FrostyPaws]

Water is actually absorbed everywhere in the digestive tract. And (according to something I remember reading) the trouble with giving too much water while the dog is eating is this: the water goes in the stomach first, diluting the acid (and thus the initial breakdown of food) while it's all being contained in the stomach.

This concern is a myth, according to Mayo Clinic gastroenterologist Michael Picco. Picco says drinking water with a meal can help improve the body's digestion. He also says water helps the digestive system function correctly by working to break down food in the stomach. Picco suggests that people can get the same digestive benefits by drinking water shortly after meals. The breakdown process is hormonal and happens naturally, whether people drink water with their meals or not. No research suggests that digestive acids or enzymes are diluted by water intake, but even if they were, the system would still be able to do its job productively.

I haven't been able to find anything that pertains to dogs as of yet. You were right about the water bit. Of course when a dog drinks that much water, the stomach is going to have a say in it. Durh!! I was thinking about when water is pulled from the body to help with digestion, it is pulled mainly to the intestines.

[Officially Retired]

This concern is a myth, according to Mayo Clinic gastroenterologist Michael Picco. Picco says drinking water with a meal can help improve the body's digestion. He also says water helps the digestive system function correctly by working to break down food in the stomach. Picco suggests that people can get the same digestive benefits by drinking water shortly after meals. The breakdown process is hormonal and happens naturally, whether people drink water with their meals or not. No research suggests that digestive acids or enzymes are diluted by water intake, but even if they were, the system would still be able to do its job productively.

I haven't been able to find anything that pertains to dogs as of yet. You were right about the water bit. Of course when a dog drinks that much water, the stomach is going to have a say in it. Durh!! I was thinking about when water is pulled from the body to help with digestion, it is pulled mainly to the intestines.

Thanks for the response.

If the stomach produces 'x' amount of acid, and if you add 'y" amount water to that pure acid, then by default there is dilution going on by a factor of 'y'.

Thus the question of how much this dilution may (or may not) affect digestion would have to be contingent on how much water is being added. While I have not read the report by Dr. Pico, I am instantly wondering if there was any distinction made between "some" water being added to a man's diet (like a normal 8 oz drinking glass), and the entire day's ration of water being added to a man's only meal. To clarify, a 170-lb man needs 170 oz (10.5 lb) of water in a whole day ... and yet he only drinks maybe 8-16 oz of water with a meal ... having the rest of his water intermittently throughout the day. I believe this is what Dr. Pico was likely measuring, meaning "a" glass of water with a meal.

In what you're talking about, Frosty, you're essentially giving a dog ITS ENTIRE DAY'S RATION OF WATER in one setting, while it is also eating its only meal, so I am not sure at all whether Dr. Pico's report for a human having "a glass of water" with a meal means that a person can also drink his entire day's supply (170 oz) of water with his only meal of the day.

So, while I realize there are differences in the digestive tracts of dogs and humans, I sill would like to be able to ask an expert to help clarify this (rather large) distinction as it pertains to "the amount" of water at one setting we're talking about.

Jack

[tasoschatz]

Thanks for the response.
To clarify, a 170-lb man needs 170 oz (10.5 lb) of water in a whole day ... and yet he only drinks maybe 8-16 oz of water with a meal ... having the rest of his water intermittently throughout the day. I believe this is what Dr. Pico was likely measuring, meaning "a" glass of water with a meal.

Jack

In case I miss something, 1 kg of water = 1 lt = 4 glasses of almost 9 oz.
170oz X 28.35gr = 4.819,5gr or almost 5 lt or 20 glasses of water per day, while everybody talks of a minimum of 8 glasses etc. Unless someone is a serious athlete or lives in a hot environment or naturally drinks a lot of water, isn't this a bit too much? the 10.5 lb I mean. Even including beverages, coffee etc.

[Officially Retired]

In case I miss something, 1 kg of water = 1 lt = 4 glasses of almost 9 oz.
170oz X 28.35gr = 4.819,5gr or almost 5 lt or 20 glasses of water per day, while everybody talks of a minimum of 8 glasses etc. Unless someone is a serious athlete or lives in a hot environment or naturally drinks a lot of water, isn't this a bit too much? the 10.5 lb I mean. Even including beverages, coffee etc.

Taso, 1 oz (30 ml) of water per 1 lb of bodyweight is the general consensus for the ideal amount of water most mammals require per day. It has nothing to do with athletics, it has to do with a general consensus as to optimal health. Most people fall short of this ideal in their diet, and (when you have a bunch of dogs on the yard) it is any man's guess as to what his dogs are/are not actually drinking.

The 1 oz-per-pound rule is likewise an effective ideal for giving IV fluids, as for example a 40-lb dog would require 40 oz (1200ml) of ringers over a day's time. However, even with administering ringers, it is NOT generally advisable to dump the whole bag (bolus dose) into the animal at once, unless it is severely dehydrated and/or has hypovolemic shock, etc. Ideally, a drip-rate is established, whereby the animal gets his full 1200 ml by IV drip over the course of a 24-hour period.

In the same fashion, ideally a dog/person should be drinking his required amount of water throughout the course of the day, not in one setting, and especially not while eating his only meal. (This would be my opinion). I do agree that an athlete is going to require more than the average amount of water per day, especially after his workout.

That said, I believe those who practice the strategy of giving their dogs an entire 30ml/lb of water at one setting, do so only because they can't really monitor their dog's drinking all day, and/or because it is just more convenient to dump-in the entire required amount of water with the feed at one setting. However, I also recognize the fact that, right after a hard workout, a dog is going to have lost a lot of water because of the work, and I can see the need to replace this water. However, that said, I still believe that giving the animal its entire day's supply of water after the work is overkill, and is not something I would personally do. Not saying this practice can't or hasn't "worked" (or been adequate), but at this point I highly doubt that (if the practice were measured and studied) it would be considered the optimal way to go.

Another thing to remember about hard work is also the loss of electrolytes, so IMO giving a dog a pint or two of Pedialyte after the work would supply a more equable amount of fluid replacement (rather than an overkill amount), and that Pedialyte would likewise address the electrolyte issue. If this was then followed by feeding the dog his meal, about an hour later, this might prove to be more effective. But this is just conjecture.

Jack