Ditto EWO. Like I said earlier if you got a good one were very rough and hard mouth. Never came but one way or the other. Very good or very bad. Lot of these dogs were also pushed to young. Most were slow maturing.

Overtime I found that the Heinzl line was hard to click with just any blood lines. Seemed that Howard Tobe/Rose/Tudor's Red Bill blood line worked the best. The Lonzo dogs would have crossed real well with that line. The Kephart dogs were to far out West as well to try out. I was a family working man on a working mans pay grade.

Wanted to try a lot of things but enough money was always a issue. Overtime I bred too many crosses and had too many dogs. Have at one time almost ninety dogs. As one dog man said on here can consume you totally in mind/body/soul and use up all extra money and then some. I know what he meant because I got to experience it.