How or where do dogs get their style ? Opinions please.

[bamaman]

What do yall think of a dog who develops a style to keep dogs out of areas he or she doesn't want to get bit ? lets say a head dog for instance ,why does he go to the head ? is it because he doesn't want to get bit in the rear ? Now would you call this offensive or defensive style or both ? I have noticed on some of mine when you pet the head and work your way towards the rear the closer to the rear you get the more alert they become.Ok now say a rear end dog ,he goes for the rear because he doesn't want to get bit in the head ? So same question is it offensive or defensive or both ? And wonder how many folks got bit trying to pet the head of one of these ? just looking for some opinions.

[loot]

I believe it comes from their genes and from their schooling.

[Officially Retired]

Where does it come from, and is it offensive or defensive?

You should post your full question that you PM'd me

[texaco]

There born with it in there genes.We can help them by schooling them and teach them to adapt to different styles.And each dog differs one might be a defensive and the other an offensive fighter.There is also those dog's that get in the box with a hard biter and will switch there style up and get to biting on the ear to hold him/her out.

[bamaman]

You should post your full question that you PM'd me

I can do that Jack,I was thinking I may be to leading .

[EWO]

Styles can be genetic based on selection.

Smart owners make smart dogs by schooling the dog against as much as he might see when the only thing known about the other dog is his weight, show night.

Most often it is the combination of the two.

Sometimes a dog has a natural propensity to do things a certain way and will be hell bent on having his way.

We had a couple of Bolio crossed dogs that were hell bent on the rear end. They would take a beating to get there, didn't seem to care, would pass on another hold to eventually get there, just plain hell bent. When they got there it was total destruction. The kicker was even the most brutal head dogs didn't teach these two a thing, nor did it persuade them to go another route.

Had other dogs that adapted to anything in front of them, used defense to make offense, just had a ton of brains.

Some are reactionary others are pro-active in their actions.

Even within a family there are differences. In a roundabout way I would give a non answer and say it really depends on the dog. EWO

[Officially Retired]

I agree with EWO.

I have specifically bred for head dogs ever since I had Poncho.

My line is known for head dogs as a result, so I am 100% sure that style is (and can be) genetic.

However, as EWO said, some dogs are stubborn and will never change ... some dogs are "that way" (style-wise, genetically) ... while other dogs are smart, adaptable, teachable, and therefore capable of learning and growing as they go.

It is hard to say what any dog is going to be, which is why schooling is so important.

You can't know the teachability of any dog unless you school ... and school properly

I don't know Gr Ch Titere personally, but I would imagine by now he knows every trick in the book, and (the realities of age/wear notwithstanding) that has seen it all, and knows what to do in (and how to counter) virtually any situation.

I am sure he operated on "raw genetics" (or close to it) on his first deal, but by now is a totally-schooled pro in what he does.

Human fighters are the same way: it is hard to know any boxer's potential, until they've sparred on multiple occasions. Some will be "defensive" and not really want to get hit, some will be super-aggressive and not think about defense, while others will not want to box anymore after they get hurt. And then there will be those of deadly intent who learn defense, so that they can better-execute their attack. These are the ones who will become stars.

Human fighters may begin a pro career with "raw talent" and have some "natural moves" ... but they are at their peak when they have a certain amount of experience also.

And so it is with dogs. Both their natural aptitudes as well as their developed styles, gained through experience.

Some dogs are on the head because they're "afraid to get bit," while others are on the head because they know that's how to control the fight, but it takes a dogman to recognize the difference. This is where schooling in THE OWNER also comes into play

Some owners can spot the difference right away ... some owners develop an eye through experience to be able to tell which-is-which ... while some idiots will never have a clue and never recognize the difference in what they see as they watch dogs

Therefore, a total natural vs. acquired talent through schooling vs. "no chance to improve" applies to dogmen, as owners, same as it applies to the dogs we're trying to evaluate.

All of the above can be true, it depends on the dog, and it also depends on the dogman.

There is no "one" answer for anything.

Jack

[ragedog10]

Gr.Ch Titere is by far one of the smartest most complete dog there is, as has been stated it may not look impressive but it gets the job done and he throws it in his offspring. We try mismatch styles when breeding, dads a head specialist and mom stifle monster, we do that to get dogs that will ride then shoot back door. For the most part it works but then like EWO some are just gonna do what they want.

[arsuffi@att.net]

I agree with EWO.

I have specifically bred for head dogs ever since I had Poncho.

My line is known for head dogs as a result, so I am 100% sure that style is (and can be) genetic.

However, as EWO said, some dogs are stubborn and will never change ... some dogs are "that way" (style-wise, genetically) ... while other dogs are smart, adaptable, teachable, and therefore capable of learning and growing as they go.

It is hard to say what any dog is going to be, which is why schooling is so important.

You can't know the teachability of any dog unless you school ... and school properly

I don't know Gr Ch Titere personally, but I would imagine by now he knows every trick in the book, and (the realities of age/wear notwithstanding) that has seen it all, and knows what to do in (and how to counter) virtually any situation.

I am sure he operated on "raw genetics" (or close to it) on his first deal, but by now is a totally-schooled pro in what he does.

Human fighters are the same way: it is hard to know any boxer's potential, until they've sparred on multiple occasions. Some will be "defensive" and not really want to get hit, some will be super-aggressive and not think about defense, while others will not want to box anymore after they get hurt. And then there will be those of deadly intent who learn defense, so that they can better-execute their attack. These are the ones who will become stars.

Human fighters may begin a pro career with "raw talent" and have some "natural moves" ... but they are at their peak when they have a certain amount of experience also.

And so it is with dogs. Both their natural aptitudes as well as their developed styles, gained through experience.

Some dogs are on the head because they're "afraid to get bit," while others are on the head because they know that's how to control the fight, but it takes a dogman to recognize the difference. This is where schooling in THE OWNER also comes into play

Some owners can spot the difference right away ... some owners develop an eye through experience to be able to tell which-is-which ... while some idiots will never have a clue and never recognize the difference in what they see as they watch dogs

Therefore, a total natural vs. acquired talent through schooling vs. "no chance to improve" applies to dogmen, as owners, same as it applies to the dogs we're trying to evaluate.

All of the above can be true, it depends on the dog, and it also depends on the dogman.

There is no "one" answer for anything.

Jack

I agree 100 percent on what you said Jack. My dogs were Hetrick ,Tater x Faith and every time I bred I went to the TaterxFaith side of the pedigree. I really did not breed for any style just for extreme gameness as this blood already fought from nose to tail. I had plenty to select from as I kept all pups and carried at most times 60 or more dogs. After two to three generations of just my selected dogs they started to go to the mouth not breeding for that just for gameness. So my question, is this typical of all lines of bulldogs being bred for just gameness or was the TaterxFaith blood known for that[to go to the mouth] because I always heard back then was it was known just for being rugged and game, please respond as this is a good topic to discuss and take a little farther down the road. Yours in the Game Johnny

[CYJ]

Ditto Jack and EWO. Back when my dog partner V.J. was doing so well. In schooling dogs with me or someone else. V.J. had one that showed desire,but was getting the bad end of the deal in it's first schooling. When V.J. brought this same dog out for a second schooling lesson, later on.

If I or the someone else went to get and try another dog. V.J. would say no, go get that same dog that was used the last time. Usually the reply to V.J. was made, but that dog had the upper hand the whole time. Sure you do not want to try another dog.

His reply was no, less use the same schooling dog from the first get go. See what my dog has learned, will it show some counter move smarts or maybe kick your dog's arse. LOL. If not, no need to proceed farther. Just check my dog's oil on that dog. He felt a good dog that had potential would learn the proper counter moves before trying another style dog on it. If dog had improved, then later on try another style dog. But not to the point of schooling his dog one more time, then just one more time, and time and time again. Before one had the confidence to use their dog in a weight pull event.

Dogs that show some dog contact desire at around say 18 months old can get some short 5 minute schooling lessons. If dog shows potential, best to wait till 24 to 28 months old before a serious weight pull event is to take place.

A good dog will learn from each schooling bout, still the over all style it will predominately desire to do is in the genes. Jack's dogs are noted head dogs with smarts to go to the body when their opponent is weak. Bolio's Sire and Bolio were known for being the same bad head dog types. Eli bred dogs usually stay in the front end till they can go to the back end. JMHO, Cheers