The Price Of Pups

An acquaintance of mine sent me the link to the puppies page from one of the ''big name'' breeders and was going off on the price of his pups, pups that I pointed out he wouldn't buy any ways. Now I am not a fan of this breeder but I had to call it as I see it.

The man had dedicated his entire adult life to the betterment of his families of dogs.

When you run a first class puppy and stud service enterprise feeding a high quality feed to 100+ dogs, providing top of the line veterinarian care, top of the line fenced housing kennels and employing a full time yard staff year round not to mention state of the art, on site chilled and frozen semen storage facility can easily justify puppies priced from $1500 to $3000 and stud services from show stock priced accordingly.

Especially when you factor in up to date puppy care to a staggering 60 litters or more per year while under the strictest of scrutiny from ''big brother''.

Also last but not least owning a dog registry that has a number of sanctioned shows per year and a large scale annual "Pig Pickin" with special guests and bands brought in.

Now there are certainly pit falls one could point out but the mans prices is not one.

FYI : To help keep things in perspective, the average cost of a Golden Doodle from a hobby breeder ranges from $1,950 U.S to $5,095 U.S. depending on the poodle type used for the cross with the most common standard Poodle cross being $2,300 U.S. (a female friend of mine just bought one for her family)

Also try getting a 'pure bred' pedigree pup with breeding rights from a professional dog breeder, regardless of the breed and see what kind of money is being asked.

I think I know who you are talking about. For personality reasons I chose blood that is different from the what he runs. I respect his setup. It’s top notch. It is pretty much a full time job. Another breeder said how much time and money you lose from dogs. I have always had these dogs and will always it’s some thing in me that needs them. When I was in college half of a well known kennel sold me two pups off a rom producer for 300 a piece. She also had a day job. Kept a small yard. Wasn’t really active but liked the breed and enjoyed raising puppies. I don’t breed a lot. I can see myself having maybe two litters a year. I don’t know what my price will be. I remember what this person charged me and I remember reading all the history of the breed and not having a thousand dollars laying around for a dog. I add in some other factors when I make breeding decisions that not every dog man does. I value temperament highly in my selection process. I may end up selecting towards a late starting colder dog than the mindless hot dogs some breed for. I had a recent loss from a kennel accident where a half cold dog finished a bigger stronger fast starting male in my living room. The same dog later that night played with a cat and wanted to sleep with my friends girl. That discretion and temperament is something I’d like to breed into a line. I don’t know what I’ll sell them for. Now it’s a small hobby. I’m more concerned about gathering the traits i want to preserve. And made breedings so I don’t get bred into a corner. I check up on my dogs. I’m probably too emotionally invested in them. I have always felt stability of temperament doesn’t exclude success in competition. If I don’t trust them enough to sleep in my house with me I’m not going to sell them to you. That being said. My calmest dogs are turning out to be capable serial killers. I have done vascular repairs to people bitten by dogs with unstable temperaments. I may always put some decent dogs in those places. A past contributor to this board implied that he does the same. If you’re good to the dog and will do right by it and I can breed back if necessary we can work on price. If I grew to a point where I had to stop the loss from expenses I would adjust. Price is what people are willing to pay plus what you are comfortable taking.

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Originally Posted by Frank43

I think I know who you are talking about. For personality reasons I chose blood that is different from the what he runs. I respect his setup. It’s top notch. It is pretty much a full time job. Another breeder said how much time and money you lose from dogs. I have always had these dogs and will always it’s some thing in me that needs them. When I was in college half of a well known kennel sold me two pups off a rom producer for 300 a piece. She also had a day job. Kept a small yard. Wasn’t really active but liked the breed and enjoyed raising puppies. I don’t breed a lot. I can see myself having maybe two litters a year. I don’t know what my price will be. I remember what this person charged me and I remember reading all the history of the breed and not having a thousand dollars laying around for a dog. I add in some other factors when I make breeding decisions that not every dog man does. I value temperament highly in my selection process. I may end up selecting towards a late starting colder dog than the mindless hot dogs some breed for. I had a recent loss from a kennel accident where a half cold dog finished a bigger stronger fast starting male in my living room. The same dog later that night played with a cat and wanted to sleep with my friends girl. That discretion and temperament is something I’d like to breed into a line. I don’t know what I’ll sell them for. Now it’s a small hobby. I’m more concerned about gathering the traits i want to preserve. And made breedings so I don’t get bred into a corner. I check up on my dogs. I’m probably too emotionally invested in them. I have always felt stability of temperament doesn’t exclude success in competition. If I don’t trust them enough to sleep in my house with me I’m not going to sell them to you. That being said. My calmest dogs are turning out to be capable serial killers. I have done vascular repairs to people bitten by dogs with unstable temperaments. I may always put some decent dogs in those places. A past contributor to this board implied that he does the same. If you’re good to the dog and will do right by it and I can breed back if necessary we can work on price. If I grew to a point where I had to stop the loss from expenses I would adjust. Price is what people are willing to pay plus what you are comfortable taking.

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A ''yard accident'' in your living room where one dog got ''finished'' by a ''half cold'' dog...

https://i.ibb.co/1vNcXTc/64437734.jpg

I guess you learn hard lessons. Female had pups in the big wire crate and the male was out. Came home to a blood bath. I don’t want chain spots in the suburbs. I’m gonna have to build a concrete bottom pen and keep somebody outside. Call me stupid. They were together every day since 3 months old. I have been working on moving out of here for awhile and getting land. I didn’t want my dogs outside unwatched or poisoned. Call me stupid. You learn hard lessons sometimes. Sucks having to bury a friend because you fucked up.

I was there recently.
Least we forget the 4 people walking and exercising the dogs, the others who are socializing them And the 2 people who are doing the actual breedings.
These are other added expenses people don’t see or factor into what those pups cost.
At the end of the day a man has a price for his product, you either willing to pay or keep it moving.

I know it’s worth it. I understand genetics and the need to have x amount of dogs. I don’t really want to be a large scale breeder. That breeder you mentioned runs a lot of lines he has ten litters on the ground at a time. That’s his thing. This is one reason why I try to focus on a small section of the pit world and identify number one the traits I value. That used to be gameness. That’s why I was attracted rbj. I’d rather have a dog lose scratching than winning impressively and quitting the first time they got pushed. I think the bolio tombstone side adds brains talent and gameness. I was lucky enough that some one gave me good pups that turned out well. I was gifted even though I bought them a yard starter breeding pair. Worked them lived with them. I know how they work and respond. Now I have raised their litters. I know the dog I want to create. Each breeding hopefully will get me. A game, talented dog that you can hog hunt all day with and ride home in the truck with. I few breedings and selecting my pups placing a few. I should be able to have a yard of 8-12 dogs and narrow in on my dog. That’s probably what people who end up with a 100 dogs say. With all the shit you have to deal with I can’t leave these dumbass dogs. You just deal with the shit and adjust. I need to get help with some of them. I just don’t really want a big well known yard. I just want solid dogs. I like Chavis and cottingham. I don’t think cottingham had a ton of dogs but he knew something about breeding. He has a high percentage of good dogs on what seems like a yard of 12-20 dogs. At guess at some point money comes into it. Bills have to be paid. I have what I feel are two foundation females to form two subfamilies out of built around different traits. It shouldn’t take a bunch of dogs to do that. Just a few stud fees and selection. This is prob what every breeder says two years before they have a 100 dogs. Most of the people I know have more time than money. If the dogs are getting satisfactorily fed I’m usually satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Frank43

I know it’s worth it. I understand genetics and the need to have x amount of dogs. I don’t really want to be a large scale breeder. That breeder you mentioned runs a lot of lines he has ten litters on the ground at a time. That’s his thing. This is one reason why I try to focus on a small section of the pit world and identify number one the traits I value. That used to be gameness. That’s why I was attracted rbj. I’d rather have a dog lose scratching than winning impressively and quitting the first time they got pushed. I think the bolio tombstone side adds brains talent and gameness. I was lucky enough that some one gave me good pups that turned out well. I was gifted even though I bought them a yard starter breeding pair. Worked them lived with them. I know how they work and respond. Now I have raised their litters. I know the dog I want to create. Each breeding hopefully will get me. A game, talented dog that you can hog hunt all day with and ride home in the truck with. I few breedings and selecting my pups placing a few. I should be able to have a yard of 8-12 dogs and narrow in on my dog. That’s probably what people who end up with a 100 dogs say. With all the shit you have to deal with I can’t leave these dumbass dogs. You just deal with the shit and adjust. I need to get help with some of them. I just don’t really want a big well known yard. I just want solid dogs. I like Chavis and cottingham. I don’t think cottingham had a ton of dogs but he knew something about breeding. He has a high percentage of good dogs on what seems like a yard of 12-20 dogs. At guess at some point money comes into it. Bills have to be paid. I have what I feel are two foundation females to form two subfamilies out of built around different traits. It shouldn’t take a bunch of dogs to do that. Just a few stud fees and selection. This is prob what every breeder says two years before they have a 100 dogs. Most of the people I know have more time than money. If the dogs are getting satisfactorily fed I’m usually satisfied.

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10 at a time ??? lol, Sorry, try 20+ a few times a year, remember he doesn't advertise every litter. As far as breeders go I much rather Mr. Boyles who has never kept more then 10 dogs on his yard at a time.

Why do you like Boyle’s. I know he has a good line of dogs. I would consider incorporating a little of that into my mix. I’m not sure it’s needed. I like the style of what I have. They are hard to break off. They aren’t soft mouthed dogs. I thought about working some Luther into the dam of family one. I’m not sure she needs it. Next breedings should be Alpo or Machobear with her. There’s a 50/50 dog evo has that my gut says will be a good breeding with her. She lacks some work ethic but she may not need it. John jr prob add drive and wind there’s dolly and bull. Hopefully her style is passed on to a good percentage of pups. My friends always talking about mouth. If you’re smart enough to get you your spot and have enough to seal the deal how much do you need. That’s why I like Alpo. He’s like a 50/50. She needs drive to me. Breeding her to a dog with drive made a good litter. There was a lot of variation. I want them stamped out like little carbon copies. For some reason female for subfamily two is smaller looks like a Butkus dog. More on the rbj hyper And athletic side. I think the double bred tango dog with Boyle’s and a Butkus dog will get that family started. Speed and brains athleticism smaller size. I just hope the double bred son can throw one.

Funny how animal rights lunatics have been pushing propaganda about how pit dogs is a money thing... If I was going to breed for money I'd do something like Teacup Poodles at 10k a pup or whatever. Seen English Bulldog types sell 20k a pup. Not to mention those deformed American Bully dogs at 20-30k for tri-color. Ever seen those? Now that's real cruelty to animals. List goes on... Back to the subject: A person can ask what they want for a pup. Period. And it's no one's business. If you want a pup off a long dead famous dog, you have to pay up and someone always does. The critics seem to be those that are unable to afford it. There is no shame in not being able to afford something. There is, however, shame in mocking those that can.

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Originally Posted by Frank43

Why do you like Boyle’s. I know he has a good line of dogs. I would consider incorporating a little of that into my mix. I’m not sure it’s needed. I like the style of what I have. They are hard to break off. They aren’t soft mouthed dogs. I thought about working some Luther into the dam of family one. I’m not sure she needs it. Next breedings should be Alpo or Machobear with her. There’s a 50/50 dog evo has that my gut says will be a good breeding with her. She lacks some work ethic but she may not need it. John jr prob add drive and wind there’s dolly and bull. Hopefully her style is passed on to a good percentage of pups. My friends always talking about mouth. If you’re smart enough to get you your spot and have enough to seal the deal how much do you need. That’s why I like Alpo. He’s like a 50/50. She needs drive to me. Breeding her to a dog with drive made a good litter. There was a lot of variation. I want them stamped out like little carbon copies. For some reason female for subfamily two is smaller looks like a Butkus dog. More on the rbj hyper And athletic side. I think the double bred tango dog with Boyle’s and a Butkus dog will get that family started. Speed and brains athleticism smaller size. I just hope the double bred son can throw one.

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I like him as a breeder, he established his family using a blend of Eli, Hank and Bolio to various degrees and was able to achieve a uniformity that many seasoned dogmen had great success with. He cared less about having his name in every slot of a pedigree and more about having the right dog.

With regards to breeding to Alpo or Machobear if it were my money I would choose Machobear as he was a proven producer, keep in mind anything to Machobear will be by A.I. as he is now deceased and with that will come a bigger price tag.

I know nothing about the Little John Jr dog and for myself a pretty pedigree alone doesn't mean anything to me. If you like the Little John blood I would look no further then CML's Loco.

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Originally Posted by brasso

Funny how animal rights lunatics have been pushing propaganda about how pit dogs is a money thing... If I was going to breed for money I'd do something like Teacup Poodles at 10k a pup or whatever. Seen English Bulldog types sell 20k a pup. Not to mention those deformed American Bully dogs at 20-30k for tri-color. Ever seen those? Now that's real cruelty to animals. List goes on... Back to the subject: A person can ask what they want for a pup. Period. And it's no one's business. If you want a pup off a long dead famous dog, you have to pay up and someone always does. The critics seem to be those that are unable to afford it. There is no shame in not being able to afford something. There is, however, shame in mocking those that can.

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Well Said !!!

...and speaking of deformed :

http://www.barcroft.tv/world-s-bigge...illion-dollars

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Originally Posted by ROCK-MACHINE

I like him as a breeder, he established his family using a blend of Eli, Hank and Bolio to various degrees and was able to achieve a uniformity that many seasoned dogmen had great success with. He cared less about having his name in every slot of a pedigree and more about having the right dog.

With regards to breeding to Alpo or Machobear if it were my money I would choose Machobear as he was a proven producer, keep in mind anything to Machobear will be by A.I. as he is now deceased and with that will come a bigger price tag.

I know nothing about the Little John Jr dog and for myself a pretty pedigree alone doesn't mean anything to me. If you like the Little John blood I would look no further then CML's Loco.

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I respect his work. He’s almost like a Patrick. Made a little family bred so that it stands crossed by other people into other strains. You make a good point. I’m not looking for a pretty ped. More like ingredients in a mix. You have to make decisions with incomplete info with the way things are. I know my female needs a shot of redboy blood. She isn’t the hardest worker but high on brains.

If you do things right there isn’t much money in it. If you can make enough for dog food and upkeep and pay for stud fees with puppy sales you’re doing good. You can’t sell to everybody. If the people getting them don’t have a fighting spirit and a brain they will think these dogs are like any other. I’m not the one with a clay Davis mentality ,”I’ll take anybody money if he’s giving it away.” I want to know my dogs and build more brains into them. I like working dogs. Not really trying to peddle or end up a target by alphabet boys.

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Originally Posted by Frank43

I respect his work. He’s almost like a Patrick. Made a little family bred so that it stands crossed by other people into other strains. You make a good point. I’m not looking for a pretty ped. More like ingredients in a mix. You have to make decisions with incomplete info with the way things are. I know my female needs a shot of redboy blood. She isn’t the hardest worker but high on brains.

If you do things right there isn’t much money in it. If you can make enough for dog food and upkeep and pay for stud fees with puppy sales you’re doing good. You can’t sell to everybody. If the people getting them don’t have a fighting spirit and a brain they will think these dogs are like any other. I’m not the one with a clay Davis mentality ,”I’ll take anybody money if he’s giving it away.” I want to know my dogs and build more brains into them. I like working dogs. Not really trying to peddle or end up a target by alphabet boys.

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You may want to look into the Dykes/Nelson/Deloach/Boyles blend rather then straight Redboy, the ones I've seen bring a lot to the table and then some. You want to find it heavy Otis with no more then 1/4 Haymaker though.

Long gone are the days when you had to be qualified to have a valid opinion that was worth sharing to the world. You might ruin your reputation before you get started, sharing what you think about others when you have no real merits or accomplishments yourself. I always thought the best way to combat the practices you dislike is to put forth the change you would like to see. If you think 2000 is too much for a pup... build your yard. Put the time and effort un culling, cultivating, and putting on display the kind of animals fanciers from everywhere would be happy to own... then given them away or sell them for 500 dollars. Blaze the trail you want others to follow.

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Originally Posted by Black Hand

Long gone are the days when you had to be qualified to have a valid opinion that was worth sharing to the world. You might ruin your reputation before you get started, sharing what you think about others when you have no real merits or accomplishments yourself. I always thought the best way to combat the practices you dislike is to put forth the change you would like to see. If you think 2000 is too much for a pup... build your yard. Put the time and effort un culling, cultivating, and putting on display the kind of animals fanciers from everywhere would be happy to own... then given them away or sell them for 500 dollars. Blaze the trail you want others to follow.

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Those days never existed and opinions are not meant to be validated.

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Originally Posted by brasso

Those days never existed and opinions are not meant to be validated.

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Sir, I'm speaking to the other dogmen on the forum.

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Originally Posted by Black Hand

Sir, I'm speaking to the other dogmen on the forum.

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Me too. Not meaning to pick on you. Sorry if it came out that way. I only meant that everyone has a right to their opinion.

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Originally Posted by ROCK-MACHINE

Well Said !!!

...and speaking of deformed :

http://www.barcroft.tv/world-s-bigge...illion-dollars

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If that's a pit, I own Amazon. I was at Petsmart this weekend and this couple in their late 20's had a bully. Not kidding, poor dog could barely walk. More of a belly crawl. Didn't need a leash, couldn't walk more than a few steps without collapsing. A very sad sight to see. But somehow having a healthy dog on a long chain will get you fined or worse.

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Originally Posted by brasso

If that's a pit, I own Amazon. I was at Petsmart this weekend and this couple in their late 20's had a bully. Not kidding, poor dog could barely walk. More of a belly crawl. Didn't need a leash, couldn't walk more than a few steps without collapsing. A very sad sight to see. But somehow having a healthy dog on a long chain will get you fined or worse.

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https://i.ibb.co/JFsJHNd/51h3oub-EZZL-AC.jpg

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Originally Posted by Black Hand

Long gone are the days when you had to be qualified to have a valid opinion that was worth sharing to the world. You might ruin your reputation before you get started, sharing what you think about others when you have no real merits or accomplishments yourself. I always thought the best way to combat the practices you dislike is to put forth the change you would like to see. If you think 2000 is too much for a pup... build your yard. Put the time and effort un culling, cultivating, and putting on display the kind of animals fanciers from everywhere would be happy to own... then given them away or sell them for 500 dollars. Blaze the trail you want others to follow.

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Hey dogman ,try https://subscriptions.hookedonphonic....google.com%2F then come back and take a read through this thread instead of just the title.

:shocked::lol:

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Originally Posted by S_B

:shocked::lol:

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Um ??? http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...T-IN-PEACE-S-B

The other half of SB passed away.

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Originally Posted by RampagesPHURY

The other half of SB passed away.

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ah, ok. Sorry for the loss of your partner SB.

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Originally Posted by Black Hand

I think you may have misinterpreted my post or you have a comprehension problem... if the Done Nothings Shouldnt Have An Opinion portion of my post struck you wrong, then it may be time for some self reflection. Anyways, didnt want to ruin your thread. I underlined dogmen because it's obvious most here are not that... they can rub elbows with dogmen at the big pig picken, put international as their location... but are only international dogmen in their mind and on the internet. Same place their opinion is valid, in their mind and on the internet.

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Hell, don't be shy, post it here lol. Perhaps you would like me to incriminate myself in a reply hmm ?

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Originally Posted by ROCK-MACHINE

Hell, don't be shy, post it here lol. Perhaps you would like me to incriminate myself in a reply hmm ?

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Guess you're not international :lol:

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Originally Posted by Black Hand

Guess you're not international :lol:

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No sir, just an armchair dogman and petbull owner with a passing interest in the history of the breed.

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Originally Posted by ROCK-MACHINE

No sir, just an armchair dogman and petbull owner with a passing interest in the history of the breed.

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Cool. Me too! Hey it's the internet. You can be whatever you want as long as you do no harm.

From what I've seen the price of pups depends on several factors. Who's sellin' em, who's buyin' em, and what the market is. Some are placed for free to the right home.

Back in the 1970s when I started with the dogs you could buy a well bred pup for anywhere from $125 to about $250-300. I bought my first bull pup bred down from the old Wise's Max/Red Devil lines for $125 from a newspaper ad. A few yrs later I bought a well bred pup from Howard Heinzl for $250.

Like all things pup prices went up over the years but one can still find a well bred pup for $800 to $1200. Considering the foolish prices for those "doodle" mixes ($3000 and up!) the prices for a pit bull pup are pretty reasonable. Compared to other breeds even a $1500 pup is not out of line if you want it, all depends on what a person wants to spend…