stud dogs brood bitches and dog prizes in general. and the ""Justification"" in

Hi again;

I just got back from a weekend vacation, and have answered as much as I can, for now.

Ultimately, I personally don't care what anyone charges for a stud fee, but I agree that the question, "What is a valid price for a stud?", opens the forum up to some interesting dialogue, so I will attempt to participate more in a day or so when I have more time.

I have always felt that a stud service was one of THE most valuable tools a person can use to develop his program, and THE most undervalued service in the dog game, so I have a lot to say on the subject :mrgreen:

Jack

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When you sell dogs for a living, money comes first.

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I think for you quality came first and thats what separates you from 99,99% of the breeders who sell dogs for a living. So that was not directed towards you, you're right about what you couldn't have done if you were to selective.

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Originally Posted by R2L

I think for you quality came first and thats what separates you from 99,99% of the breeders who sell dogs for a living. So that was not directed towards you, you're right about what you couldn't have done if you were to selective.

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Thank you. I did everything I could to produce quality, from the dogs I bred, to creating a full set of instructions (my books) as to what to do with them ... from birth till death .... and even how to properly manage their gene pools, with selective breeding choices, to carry their genetic qualities indefinitely on into posterity. And I would say 85% don't listen :lol:

So, you were right, it is tough to watch people mess-up with the lives/happiness/potential of the dogs I've created ... but I've also got to meet a lot of cool people along the way too and see my dogs achieve a high level of success all over the world as well.

I've pretty much stopped my own involvement in breeding now, for legal as well as a lot of other reasons, but I remain extremely interested in these dogs ... so I am trying to create the best online resource of information on dogs through this website :)

Jack

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Agreed.





The most shameful thing in the world is worrying about what other people do.

When you sell dogs for a living, money comes first.

That said, I have turned down $$$ from people I knew were pure scum, but have sold dogs to all kinds of dogmen: from total beginners to some of the winningest kennels out there. Almost none of them can keep a dog alive for life, no matter who they are. But a few have. Any already good dogman who gets dogs from me uses them for breeding into their own line. Many beginners buy dogs from me to breed them and develop their own lines too. I would rather sell a dog for breeding and building than to be used as a toy.

Invariably, time-and-again, the best buyers are relative (not total) beginners ... who've learned enough of the ropes to have some sense ... but who still haven't "made it" ... but they buy with truly good intentions and then they get out there and whip top dogmen with the dogs they get from me (or off of the breedings they made using my dogs).

Jack

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Great post! :)

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Everyone has fucked up. The difference is, was it a mistake, or intentional recklessness.

That said, I would rather see someone use one of my dogs as a "model" or a stud dog ... so at least the dog has a good life ... than see someone fuck it up, feed it shit food, or keep it in lousy conditions.

The truth is, if I didn't sell dogs, I would never have been able to breed as many generations-deep into my own line as I have ... never have been able to do as many experimental breedings as I have ... never have learned as much as I have about the truths and myths about line-/inbreeding first hand ... never have seen my dogs kick as much ass all over the world as I have ... nor been able to becomee the expert on breeding as I am now.

If I kept every pup I bred, from youth to old age, I would hardly have any breeding experience at all.

So there is a flipside to everything ....

Jack

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Great to know! ;)

"The truth is, if I didn't sell dogs, I would never have been able to breed as many generations-deep into my own line as I have ... never have been able to do as many experimental breedings as I have ... never have learned as much as I have about the truths and myths about line-/inbreeding first hand ... never have seen my dogs kick as much ass all over the world as I have ... nor been able to becomee the expert on breeding as I am now.

If I kept every pup I bred, from youth to old age, I would hardly have any breeding experience at all.

So there is a flipside to everything ...."

This is a great post.

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Thank you. I did everything I could to produce quality, from the dogs I bred, to creating a full set of instructions (my books) as to what to do with them ... from birth till death .... and even how to properly manage their gene pools, with selective breeding choices, to carry their genetic qualities indefinitely on into posterity. And I would say 85% don't listen :lol:

So, you were right, it is tough to watch people mess-up with the lives/happiness/potential of the dogs I've created ... but I've also got to meet a lot of cool people along the way too and see my dogs achieve a high level of success all over the world as well.

I've pretty much stopped my own involvement in breeding now, for legal as well as a lot of other reasons, but I remain extremely interested in these dogs ... so I am trying to create the best online resource of information on dogs through this website :)

Jack

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As As a breeder , Jack has been able to establish a line of winning dogs, known as the vise grip line, or the cali Jack dogs. Produced countless winners champions, grand champions, and deadgame dogs like Nazi. ALL bloodlines have curs, it's just that the better lines have better percentages. One of the most difficult things to watch is a dumbass make mistakes with YOUR FAMILY OF DOGS. ONE OF THE MOST REWARDING IS TO SEE SOMEONE HAVE SUCCESS WITH YOUR STOCK. I am in the process of establishing the Machobuck line of dogs. I am extremely excited that my studs have champions each from the very first breedings done with them, with many more to come. But I've equally pulled my hair out. The other weekend a greenhorn tool a daughter of mr. Machobuck to 1:26 belly crawl flopping scratches to win pushing two pounds... No aftercare. Another in Jersey pushing 3 to 2:20 at 33 pounds with a 17 months old pup. It's enough to make you throw up. Another 2xer being done with a 26 blood count. So. .. It's a tough argument if such and such dog is a "producer" The bottom line is feed isn't free, you gotta sell some, but you also have to place some in experienced proven hands. We've recently taken a mentor approach to some newbies that are full of piss and vinegar, and have had good results.

Nice post evo! It's always good to see someone take a gentleman's approach to this shit and just say to each is own. I could never waste my time worrying about the next guys biz or trying to convince anyone of anything. You're only gonna get outta these dogs what you put in to them.....and a lot of times you don't get anything but a lesson. The thing that's sour about the climate of the game now, or maybe it's been that way, is, you could have a few guys that in general will have similar ways as it relates to their dog dealings but for some reason one or two get props as being "good Dogmen" while the others get knocked for the same reasons lol. I will never forget the second race I ever went to, this guy at the end of the race proceeded to talk down on the winning dog because he didn't like its owner then turns around and started making excuses for the loser because he looked up to the owner smh.

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Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed

Great post! :)

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Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed

Great to know! ;)

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Originally Posted by dpitbull

This is a great post.

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Thank you and glad you enjoyed the read ...

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Originally Posted by evolutionkennels

As As a breeder , Jack has been able to establish a line of winning dogs, known as the vise grip line, or the cali Jack dogs. Produced countless winners champions, grand champions, and deadgame dogs like Nazi. ALL bloodlines have curs, it's just that the better lines have better percentages. One of the most difficult things to watch is a dumbass make mistakes with YOUR FAMILY OF DOGS. ONE OF THE MOST REWARDING IS TO SEE SOMEONE HAVE SUCCESS WITH YOUR STOCK. I am in the process of establishing the Machobuck line of dogs. I am extremely excited that my studs have champions each from the very first breedings done with them, with many more to come. But I've equally pulled my hair out. The other weekend a greenhorn tool a daughter of mr. Machobuck to 1:26 belly crawl flopping scratches to win pushing two pounds... No aftercare. Another in Jersey pushing 3 to 2:20 at 33 pounds with a 17 months old pup. It's enough to make you throw up. Another 2xer being done with a 26 blood count. So. .. It's a tough argument if such and such dog is a "producer" The bottom line is feed isn't free, you gotta sell some, but you also have to place some in experienced proven hands. We've recently taken a mentor approach to some newbies that are full of piss and vinegar, and have had good results.

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Thank you and great post yourself.

All I can say is I share your hopes ... and feel your pain ... and have no doubt that you'll achieve everything you set your mind to.

It would be a lot easier if people appreciated what they had and the thought/work that was put into it.

Cheers,

Jack

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Originally Posted by evolutionkennels

As As a breeder , Jack has been able to establish a line of winning dogs, known as the vise grip line, or the cali Jack dogs. Produced countless winners champions, grand champions, and deadgame dogs like Nazi. ALL bloodlines have curs, it's just that the better lines have better percentages. One of the most difficult things to watch is a dumbass make mistakes with YOUR FAMILY OF DOGS. ONE OF THE MOST REWARDING IS TO SEE SOMEONE HAVE SUCCESS WITH YOUR STOCK. I am in the process of establishing the Machobuck line of dogs. I am extremely excited that my studs have champions each from the very first breedings done with them, with many more to come. But I've equally pulled my hair out. The other weekend a greenhorn tool a daughter of mr. Machobuck to 1:26 belly crawl flopping scratches to win pushing two pounds... No aftercare. Another in Jersey pushing 3 to 2:20 at 33 pounds with a 17 months old pup. It's enough to make you throw up. Another 2xer being done with a 26 blood count. So. .. It's a tough argument if such and such dog is a "producer" The bottom line is feed isn't free, you gotta sell some, but you also have to place some in experienced proven hands. We've recently taken a mentor approach to some newbies that are full of piss and vinegar, and have had good results.

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This is nice to hear.because of the state of things these days it is difficult for a greenhorn to get good sound guidance especially with all the dirtbag so called dogmen.If the wrong person gets a hold of a greenhorn it compounds stupidity.