Black widow, the power behind the throne and old ways

This is my second time typing this. Here we go again.

I have a friend. Surprise. Some people other than my dogs like me. This friend and I argue or discuss probably the oldest arguments in bulldogs. I say family breeding. He says outcross. I say game red dogs.He says black dogs mouth mouth. I say red dog. He says black dog. It goes over and over like this until the world proves that I am right. There is no way under the sun I could ever be wrong about anything. It's like the Pope and God. I am infallible. Those are attempts at jokes.

I like studying pedigrees. I used to be good a calculus and stuff in school so I like formulas. I like playing football so I like athletics. There is not more athletic dog than a APBT. If you don't have tons of money or metaphorical knee pads I guess you have to cook your own pies. So, I study pedigrees.

I was looking at Ferguson's centipede. He is in the pedigree of one of my females. I look the breedings they made with these dogs. And try to see why they did what. Hopefully it will help me get what i need to make my all time dog.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=1738 Looks like my clo dog. Good back end the way he's standing with those straight for legs. There is something truly beautiful about looking at a well built gamedog.

We start to look thorough the offspring and you see a double bred son that won 8.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=5049

Trace dog down more and we see they inbred tight of centipede. I can hear my dad now. INBREED! Yes inbreed. Dogs have a lot more genes than we do and nature has built in ways to with propagating founder genes and purging genes in nature. I strong wolf will survive to breed his daughters after taking over a pack. I digress. Maybe ill write on things old timers did and the science behind them.

They inbred further on centipede. They bred this red okie dog who was a combination triple cross and double cross on centipede.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=3118

We skip down the line to his granddaughter who is none other than carvers black widows mother.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum....php?dog_id=43

Basically without centipede and the lightner dogs in black widows mother you couldn't have had carvers black widow. To my friend. Red dogs made black dogs.

From my recent experience with red boy dogs. If you know what you're looking for you can have a 1/4 redboy in a dog and they scream and work like redboy dogs. Ferguson's centipede made black widow. Without black widow pretty much wipe out most good lines of bulldogs. No chinaman etc.

More of old guys and tight breeding.

When i was in college i remember someone bought a dog for 10k dollars. 10k was a lot of money back then probably like 20 now. You could get gas for 89 cents a gallon. I used to keep computer printouts of this dog on my notebooks for school. I had to customize everything i had. Buy a trapper keeper with a clear cover. Go print BBC Ch bullet, PawPaw and Bullet. I said bullet twice. I liked how that dog looked. He perfect to me.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=23387

Beautifully bred dog. Let's look at his grandad. His dad made rom and threw what was the longest gamest female. Here's Hughes Dusty. No titles. What you mean no titles. You can't breed a dog without a tittle they say. He not a champion. I can tell you this. He's super tight bred on yellow john. Red boys hardest biting son. Yellow John was super tight bred on redboy.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=2891

Triple cross yellow john stud. Double cross female with an out. All that to make this dog.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=2866

There's something about the color of those dogs. It's buckskin but it's different.

What's the point of all this. I like pedigree research. I like learning ways to make what i like. I don't think everything in the past was great. Or everything now is great. Hell my dad hates inbreeding. I used it as a tool. He also asked me to buy him a lawn mower. Why does he need a lawn mower? He listened to all these clean energy fools and bought an electric mower. The battery is too weak to cut the grass and won't hold a charge. Last time i went over there i could barely make it to the back yard to see my stoic dog. I build of people who were successful in the past. And combine that with new things. I'm not abandoning linebreeding and family breeding for the "new thing" hybrid vigor that is sweeping through the dog and cattle industry. You can find healthy vigorous individuals and breed around them. Add blood as you need to and monitor for diseases. The life of a game dog has never been easy. If they survive and thrive they are vigorous specimens.

Hopefully no owners of black dogs were offended. If they were. So what.

Well I just looked quick at the pedigree and believe it to be made up of old Feeley and Colby Paddy dogs . Those dogs came over from Ireland on the same boat . Dibo many considered a Feeley dog with Colby Paddy blood if I remember right . Thats why Norrod liked Boze so much , that old Red Devil and Corvino blood is the same blood that predates the registry , real old box blood from Ireland . So you see them still using it as a cross if Im correct in my study . I could be way off . Floyd said his favoute cross was into Red Devil as well I read . Adding hybred vigiour but staying within the same family .....Im stoned lol

I love studying that old stuff. It's crazy how much centipede looks like some of these dogs. I have never had dangerous pits that I had or worry about biting me or someone else. Hemphill had that thing where he talked about the temperaments of his dogs. Mine were always like that. My dog off paw paw and my current dogs. I believe redboy had a good amount in him. I have always preferred red over black. One reason I have a hard time leaving these dogs. They are like a history book. Plus never knew there was red in and behind black widow.

Not sure where the dangerous pits came from , surely not the Red Devil blood . Mike mentioned Maude which was Hemphill would take someones hand off ! Mike never released the Red Devil pure to many for other reasons which he shared on another orum years ago . People like to say his dogs were man ighters for some reason but show me one . I can show Hemphill and Colby man fighters though .

This is why I don't allow them released to the general public anymore because they are to fight crazy at an early age and can be bred to anything, straight , or crossed and produce winners . I have less then 15 "Pure Straight Blood" left because I don't need that many to have top quality of dogs ! The percentages are that high . Most of the time I had to seperate them at 6 weeks and still do . F;ck,fight, or hold the light, they wanna be where the action is ! I can't help the fact you are a novice pet owner who can't give direction for dogs of this kind of prey drive . - Iron Mike

I know. They aren't for the public. Too much dog for most people

It sounds like a sales pitch but I had to seperate mine at 7 weeks and had to take back a pup from an owner . The pup was 8 months old and too much dog for them . This person had owned the breed for 20 years . I dont sell dogs so this is not a pitch .

I know what you mean. They are like this curse or something. You have them. They are great. You don't want to sell them. You have to deal with the headache of owning a pit. I want to see how breedings go. Other day a lady in the pet store was like,"I like smart dogs." This guy had a rescue pit. " I like in my head. This is too much dog for you. I have breedings and a family I want to build. I don't want the dogs out. Hard to explain

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrailerTrash

This is why I don't allow them released to the general public anymore because they are to fight crazy at an early age and can be bred to anything, straight , or crossed and produce winners . I have less then 15 "Pure Straight Blood" left because I don't need that many to have top quality of dogs ! The percentages are that high . Most of the time I had to seperate them at 6 weeks and still do . F;ck,fight, or hold the light, they wanna be where the action is ! I can't help the fact you are a novice pet owner who can't give direction for dogs of this kind of prey drive . - Iron Mike

---

Mine can stay around each other longer. I think they know they are family. They get to a point where they are full adults they can't see a strange dog. I think they are smarter than average. The ones on the rbj side can be dumb. I have been making an effort to put some work drive into the bt Hollingsworth side. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=89657 This breeding made some progress. Had six. Gap over bite in one. Place three with family. Sold one. Four got parvo. The one i kept lived. For some reason I can keep things alive. That was one of the best litters. I like little man so far.

There are people that can't see the difference between the dogs. Like him and abner.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=89657
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=86638

They are different. There more of frank in little man "simeon". He's a little hotter. He's kind of skittish like shy. Not in a bad way. It's hard to explain. He has a huge work drive and is fast as hell. He loves the spring pole. He's one that will get to 1.5 2 and be a beast. He's a different dog than abner. Abner js more like hearns. He's more like lomachencko.

People that are like "it's rhe blood." They annoy me. It's individuals and math percentages of what comes out. Breeding isn't a crap shoot. It's like an investment. You should have a good idea what's coming out.

As to early separation thing. I don't make much out of it. I actually prefer ones that take longer. Those early ones seem dumber on average.

As to not selling dogs . My family has never sold a dog since 1884 , first documented proof of ownership of the breed with in my family. My family is Irish Gypsy and believe it to be bad luck . I can put you in touch with dogmen who own my stock if you want their take lol The Red Devil dogs are smart , not dumb like Red Boy stock Mike mixed in . They are firing on all cylinders though when mixed with the Busenbark blood as soon as the air hits the lungs ! Last one I kept that came on biting everything , ya I dont like waiting . Some people like dogs that move like old people fucking . Not me .

I put two dogs in the hands of cousins who wanted to get into training . Two are fully trained and one is working on a ratting title at ten months so they have some smarts even in the hands of novices . I did my first breeding in 1994 so seen a few pups turn out .

Also lets think about this . If In was producing or anyone for that matter high percentage working dogs ....why would I let them out ? Im not in the dogs for money or fame .

I could not figure out how to delete my posts ! Sorry to hijack the thread , it got off topic I believe from the initial post . I could have fit it all in one post as well ! Dogs are smarter than me pre coffee !

You didn't high jack anything. It would be good to get I touch with people with stock like that. I didn't know I'd start getting so "particular" about where pups I bred were. I don't realize how much time and work comes into making a pup. If you are serious about it.

When my sister passed she asked me to promote the bred she loved , the American Pit Bull Terrier . So about ten years ago I began showing the APBT in ADBA conformation shows . That is how I started getting involved with others in the breed. Before that we kept entire litters with only family . The family was more into race horses I suppose and I ended up with the curse of Bulldog Fever I suppose . But it has been quite good , Ive met and befriended some great people . Mr.Bill , Hunterman , Gravyman, Iron Mike , Mr.Kelly , The Irish Boys and many more fanciers across the USA . As we all know , some of the people and greats really behind the dogs you never hear of as well Ive been able to pick their brain . Very Blessed in the dogs I suppose but the greatest lesson I ever learned is , COMPASSION . Mr. Bill's wife once said to Hunterman and Mr.Bill before a show , the pit bull has the hardest life of any animal on the face of earth you know . I raise mine all as family as many before have devouted their lives and freedom for our beloved dogs . God Bless the APBT and have a good day everyone .

I agree with you. They have a hard life. Life shouldn't be easy. You know the whole saying about tough times and easy times breeding weak men. I did my time on the football field. Knocked people out. Dislocated shoulder. Torn labrum. I went back in the game 10 minutes later. Because my team needed me. I respect gameness. I had more brains and gameness than raw talent. I guess you find lines that mirror your personality. Never screwed any one over. Attacked someone I was smaller than. I have put myself in danger what I thought was the greater good. If your going to breed a dog with those qualities. At some point they have to prove it. If not the breed will fade. That being said. The dogs should have the best life possible. Don't breed more than you feed. Take care of any injuries. I was serious when I said things like being able to work on your dog has to come into your breeding decisions. That's probably how some lines got good with kids. I have gone to some confirmation shows. I'm going back. Prob start a post on weight pull. Abner would be good at it. The way he's built. Perfect for it. Good back end and solid. Starting to work on plans for kennels like garner built. Probably start a post on that. Met a construction guy today. My friend can run a tractor and excavator. Let me start the weight pull one.