What is y'all opinion on carbo loading before a show?
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What is y'all opinion on carbo loading before a show?
here's an interesting article
Quote:
CARBOHYDRATE LOADING FOR DOGS.
Myth: Carbohydrate loading for dogs is a good idea. Fact: Carbohydrate loading does not work on dogs, and produces negative side effects.
1,000 years ago, everybody knew the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew the earth was flat. 50 years ago, everybody knew no man could break the 4-minute mile barrier. As the old saying goes, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially when based on false myths.
In his landmark book, The Meaning of Myth, the late Joseph Campbell revealed that myths are an essential part of our make up as humans. We develop myths to help us understand a chaotic and dangerous natural world full of mysterious events. In short, myths help us make sense of things we can't explain any other way.
Canine nutrition myths, ranging from silly to outright dangerous, thrive in the dog world. The reason these false belief systems have been so prevalent for so long is simple. In the absence of reliable information, any notion that seems to explain why something occurs makes sense, at least at the time. Over time, a myth, no matter how wrong it might be, is repeated so often that it takes on a life of its own. Finally, the myth becomes something that everybody "knows" is true, just as everybody knew the earth was flat.
Until the recent advances in sports medicine, human nutrition and performance were held hostage by false myth. As a result, performance and health among human athletes were artificially limited by false beliefs just as performance dogs are today. For example, not long ago huge pro football players, who often lose 10 pounds in summer practice, were discouraged from drinking water during workouts because it would "cramp them up". Similarly, sports drink use was discouraged for the same reason. Of course, both notions are now considered out dated myths.
From time to time, PERFORMANCE DOG MAGAZINE takes on outdated myths by engaging in good-natured, but serious, debate on topics related to canine nutrition and conditioning. We'll examine published ads and articles to see if they provide up to date information, or continue outdated myths. There are no sacred cows here; anything published for fanciers - especially written to sell products - is fair game.
The goal here is simple - to help you weed through myths so that you can make more informed decisions, which in turn helps you raise the performance and health of your dogs to new levels. The winner is not who presents a better case. The real winner, of course, is your dog.
The rules are simple. Each side of an argument follows basic debate rules. In other words, people have to support their points with something more than "everybody knows". It's the "everybody knows" mindset that begins and promotes myths in the first place.
The first myth and misinformation reviewed is by Mike Williams, who has written canine nutritional articles and a book entitled Stamina. Among Mr. Williams' repertoire of writings, we began with this article because rarely does such a stark contrast between canine myth and scientific fact present itself. Mr. Williams' article and its primary myths are summarized below:
The Russians developed carbohydrate loading and used it extensively. The best way to carbohydrate load for humans is the depletion method, which involves withholding carbohydrate during intense workouts, then taking in ultra-high amounts of carbohydrates. Moreover, carbohydrate loading works as well and for the same reasons for canine athletes as it does on humans. During the last phase of carbohydrate loading, it's good to give boiled eggs and fiber.
Myth #1 The Russians Used "Carbohydrate Loading" Extensively.
Fact: Scandinavian researchers developed carbohydrate loading over 30 years ago. Respected researchers Drs. Astrad, Hultman and others are credited with the classical carbohydrate loading studies and the knowledge evolving from them. By the way, most dietary advances for athletes emanated not from medical doctors as widely believed (another myth!), but by sports scientists. Today, sports scientists like to be called exercise physiologists.
Whatever you call them, in 1967 these researchers began studying the effects of dietary manipulation on endurance exercise performance. Going into their experiments, it appeared from earlier studies that endurance performance was associated with the amount of glycogen stored in the muscle tissue. Glycogen is the chemical storage form carbohydrates take after you eat them.
To make a long technical story short, they stuffed extra carbohydrates into military soldiers and took muscle samples to see how much more glycogen this overeating seemed to yield. Then, they exercised these test subjects almost until exhaustion. They made several key discoveries. First, they noted the more carbohydrates test subjects ate, the more muscle glycogen their bodies tended to store. And the more muscle glycogen their bodies stored, the greater the endurance performance.
Second, researchers compared methods of manipulating diet to induce greater glycogen storage. One of their methods involved a depletion stage in which carbohydrates were withheld while the athlete worked out. After this depletion stage, a period of high carbohydrate intake occurred. This resulted in very high levels of muscle glycogen.
But as in most fields of science that evolve rapidly, new discoveries often make older beliefs outdated. This original carbohydrate loading study is just that - the first. But Mr. Williams is not aware that it is not the only study. Since then, many new insights have been gained into carbohydrate metabolism that reveals new and better ways of using carbohydrates to increase human performance.
Russian sport scientists, and American scientists who've traveled to Russia to learn first hand their sports medicine practices, reveal that carbohydrate loading was never the big deal it was in America. Americans have used carbohydrate loading much more than Russians, since the Soviets long ago realized the downsides to carbohydrate loading, especially using the depletion method.
Myth #2 The Best Way To Carbohydrate Load Is Using The Depletion Method.
Fact: The 30-year-old depletion method causes a wide array of negative side effects, ranging from slightly uncomfortable to potentially dangerous. If you've ever personally withheld carbohydrates while exercising hard then stuffing carbohydrates, you've noted first hand the many unpleasant aspects to depletion. Large fluctuations in fluid balance, diarrhea, elevations in stress hormones resulting in muscle loss, ketosis and other metabolic alterations. These negatives account for why the depletion method of carbohydrate loading has lost much of its appeal since its heyday in the 1970s.
A newer and much improved method of carbohydrate intake comes from an important study by Dr. Sherman almost two decades after the first carbohydrate loading studies. In a well-controlled experiment, Dr. Sherman discovered that athletes could achieve the same increases in glycogen gained during carbohydrate depletion method, while avoiding the serious drawbacks. After all, the depletion stage's accompanying muscle damage and other side effects often cancel out the increased glycogen advantages!
Dr. Sherman's protocol was deceptively simple, yet highly effective. Instead of going through a disruptive depletion stage, he simply had athletes increase dietary carbohydrate intake the last three days before an event with rest. The glycogen stores achieved were almost the same as with the depletion method, without the negative side effects. Little wonder why this method is now favored over the old depletion method.
Myth #3 Carbohydrate Loading Is A Good Idea For Dogs.
Fact: The notion of ultra-high carbohydrate intake - and carbohydrate loading -for human athletes is undergoing serious re-examination. Recent thinking among a growing number of experts is that excess carbohydrates can inhibit the burning of fat stored in the body, and may also increase excess fat storage, and possibly even limit endurance.
Here's why, they say. Even very lean athletes have enough body fat for back-to-back workouts already stored in fat tissue. But excess carbohydrate intake produces excess insulin, the hormone produced in response to carbohydrate intake. Excess insulin blocks the use of stored body fat. Therefore, excess carbohydrate intake, which causes excess insulin, tends to inhibit fat utilization. In turn, this is a leading cause of the "running hot" syndrome.
In other words, an athlete's hungry muscles can't "get to" stored fat to use for energy. So the body uses more carbohydrates, which produces more lactic acid. And because of the overabundance of carbohydrates, excess lactic acid is produced and the "running hot" syndrome comes into play.
In humans, recent studies suggest a more balanced approach to carbohydrate intake may work better. Some experts believe that ultra-high carbohydrate intake at the expense of proteins and fats isn't what it was cracked up to be in the old days. This push and pull of ideas is at the heart of science. At any rate, it's fair to say carbohydrate loading is being rethought, and is not the rage it was in the early 1970s.
No Guesswork on Dogs
The scientific record of carbo loading on dogs is clear - it does not work, and can produce serious negative side effects. A good deal of research has been conducted in this area. In the 1970s, Dr. Kronfeld conducted several studies and found that higher protein and fat diets appeared to enhance sled dog performance better than higher carbohydrate content diets.
Building on earlier work, Dr. Reynolds and others at Harvard, Cornell and Bern Switzerland tested various diets on well-conditioned sled dogs and retrievers clearly revealed that dogs taking in higher fat and protein intakes had better performance compared to dogs on high carbohydrate intakes. The reason for
this, researchers state, is because during endurance exercise canine muscle tissue relies heavily upon the breakdown and burning of fat for energy, and an overabundance of glycogen and carbohydrate oxidation may block fat burning.
They found when you give excess carbohydrates to your dog, it may actually reduce endurance performance. That's because the extra glycogen added with carbohydrate added with carbohydrate loading gets used up faster than normal, and as a result, creates more lactic acid. In other words, the ultimate energy source in the dog - fat - can't be used because excess carbohydrates actually inhibit or block this vital energy process.
Even ultra lean dogs have enough fat stored in muscle and blood stream and body to supply the energy for daily back-to-back workouts. But too much carbohydrate and too little fat in the diet means the fat never gets a chance to kick in.
High Carbohydrates = High Lactic Acid
Here's the basis for why moderate to high fat intakes are superior to high carbohydrate intakes, as presented by researchers. When carbohydrates are burned for energy, one of the by-products is lactic acid. Lactic acid is actually a two-part molecule. Only 1%, by molecular weight, is acid (H+). The other 99% is lactate (L-) which is a base. A base is a substance that buffers acids.
Lactate and acid immediately dissociate (split) from each other when produced. It is the acid (H+) that causes the burn and pain associated with lactic acid because like all acids, it lowers pH, in this case in the muscle. Lowering pH shuts off key muscle energy enabling enzymes from doing their jobs. Because these enzymes are "turned off", the ability to keep contract muscle fibers is greatly reduced. Therefore, it is the acid part of lactic acid that causes the problems, not lactate, per se.
The newest studies reveal that of the lactate produced, about 75% is used directly by the muscles as fuel; the remaining 25% travels to the liver to be converted into liver glycogen, or glucose. That's because in addition to its ability to neutralize acid, lactate is also an active energy source used by
muscle tissue.
But the more glycogen burned for energy, the more acid (H+) produced. And remember that it's acid (H+) that causes the problems - not lactate. To a major degree, the burning of excess stored carbohydrates occurs at the expense of burning free fatty acids (fat) for energy. This is because elevated insulin levels associated with carbohydrate loading tend to inhibit the
mobilization and burning of fats.
Myth #4 Assuming Carbohydrate Loading For Dogs Is A Good Idea, Then The Depletion Method Is The Way To Go.
Fact: Carbohydrate loading for dogs, especially the depletion method promoted by Mr. Williams, is a wrongheaded and outdated idea. The depletion phase creates serious side effects ranging from sharp increases in stress hormones resulting in a breakdown of lean muscle, to cell membrane damage, plus a reduction in oxygen carrying capacity and "running hot".
For dogs attempting to "make weight", depleting carbohydrates carries an additional penalty - severe and often unpredictable weight fluctuations. It is common for dogs to lose and gain 2-4% of their total body weight in water shifts when they deplete, then restock carbs. This amounts to a total weight gain and loss of 3-5 pounds for a 45-pound dog. Trying to make weight with such large shifts in body fluids makes it very difficult to predict body weight in events like weight pulling.
So aside from the documented negative metabolic effects of depleting carbs, attempting to make weight becomes even more challenging. And if body weight exceeds the weight class, which is typical using Mr. Williams' method, then water is often withheld from the dog to reduce. This often results in dehydration, reduced performance and heat stroke.
Myth #5 Taking In Super-High Carbohydrate Food Is A Good Idea Before A Contest.
Fact: This is a bad idea before events, and is likely to make dogs "run hot". By now it's clear - carbohydrate loading is a bad idea for dogs, especially the depletion method presented by Mr. Williams. To make matters worse, during the depletion stage he advises feeding boiled eggs and fiber to dogs that have never received either previously.
Clearly, this out-of-the-blue introduction of foods can cause real GI (gastrointestinal) distress ranging from constipation to diarrhea, or both, directly before a competition. How could Mr. Williams, without offering any supporting evidence or validation other than essentially the old "everybody knows" line of reasoning expect performance dog fanciers to accept his views as reliable-or even safe.
In summary, carbohydrate loading for dogs is a bad idea that is more likely to inhibit performance than increase it. Scientific and real world research from around the world proves this fact time and time again. Moreover, using the outdated depletion procedure presented by Mr. Williams produces even more negative side effects and is much more likely to make dogs "run hot".
You should never carboload a dog. You should use fats and oils as your primary energy source for dogs. They are much more adept at breaking them down and being able to use them for energy than their human counterparts. Carbs should be limited and used judiciously, and even then, use ones that are very low on the glycemic inndex.
I am sure 99% of the people who have clicked on this thread topic were too lazy to read the article, so I highlighted the relevant portions.
There really is nothing to debate: carb-loading is NOT what anyone should be doing for a dog :mrgreen:
So, it's just limey kennels who;s swearing & preaching to carbo load a dog on game-dog.com?
Thanks for highlighting.
I don't go to Gamedogs.com, but if it's the European Limey, he does have good dogs, but if he's preaching carb-loading then he is off in left field.
Many dogmen have good dogs, but are completely ignorant on subjects like meds and nutrition.
But no, it is not "just" Limey; I have heard many dogmen tell me they carb-load. I would say that, in fact, there are more ignorant dogmen than actually knowledgeable dogmen when it comes to nutrition and medical information.
Jack
Rollbar Knls and O'Stevens carbo-load in the keeps.
If this is true, then their eye for a dog, and their selection of what dog to bring, is what is winning for them not their diet.
In other words, Mohammad Ali on a carb-loaded regimen is still Mohammad Ali ;)
you heard of K-EASE jack? should help let lactic acid leave the system more quickly
i believe its used for racing hounds as well
even the best dont know it all, i always like to hear different perspectives
I havnt heard anything about it but I saw it while looking through the Kvsupply catalog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
Of course I've heard of K-Ease.
But I am not sure what that has to do with anything?
The fact that there is a product called K-Ease doesn't change the fact that carb-loading is not optimal for a dog, feeding fats and oils is.
K EASE IS USED BY THE GREYHOUND BOYS APPERENTLY.
Yep, it's been in KV's vet catalogue for years.
Another interesting point is what greyhounds do is very fast work, and is over quickly, compared to what bulldogs do ;)
just wondering if people who are pro carbo load use this product or related products as well to minimalise negative effects of lactic acid.
I know a lot of people who use K-Ease, in fact it used to be in one of my old keeps.
Still, to my way of thinking, using K-Ease to try to minimize the bad practice of carb-loading is like using "a remedy for a hangover."
For example, back when I used to party my ass off, I would come home and take 3 Advil, a full vitamin supplement, and guzzle-down a huge glass of GatorAide, and another of tomato juice, before I went to bed ... to "prevent" a hangover from happening ... and it worked pretty good! And I sure did feel a whole lot better in the morning by taking this mix than I did if I did not.
However, this "remedy" I used was a poor substitute for just NOT getting stinkin' drunk in the first place ... and I always feel better in the morning when I don't drink than I ever did after drinking and applying my "remedy" :lol:
And the same thing is true with building-up excess lactic acid: trying to "take supplements" to cover-up the ill-effects of bad practices is a poor substitute for just not engaging in those bad practices to begin with.
Jack
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Rollbar's keep was originally developed when the consensus was that carb loading would benefit dogs as it does people. At one time, Bob Fritz believed carb loading was needed for optimum performance for dogs. That has long been disproven, and his ideas have changed accordingly. Perspective must be kept when discussing such things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crofab
Good point. My own original keep had carb-loading as well (and kibble too) ... as that was the "ignorant consensus" of most dogmen back then ... but knowledge certainly changes over time, and I certainly don't recommend these things now.
Jack
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Crofab and Jack...you both are right! I was just pointing it out. Times change, and the info we learn changes as well...
Question is, did it work for them or were they just good dogmen with good dogs????
I know both men had "good eyes" for a dog!
Again, Mohammad Al doing roadwork and eating McDonald's burgers is still Mohammad Ali in shape ... and Pinklon Thomas eating "good food" is still Pinkon Thomas, and nothing compared to a prime Ali ... which means, in the end, the most important element in any match is a good dog ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfoot
Jack
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AMENQuote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
fat is a way better energy source.
Jack,
In your book you break down the content of (water, protien, fat, carbs, fiber)
in foods like poultry, venison, rabbit..
im currious what the break down of beef is.
And how many carbs should a working 45lbs. Dog consume while being conditioned.
Goin off the thearyyou had about dogs on avsrge going 1h-2h most of the time. (It was the article you wrote about stats on dogs being over worked 5hrs.. and most matche not break the 1-2hr mark...
any way getting back on topic. What whould the carb intake on a 45lbs. Dog conditioned for a 2.5-3 hr hunt. For an example...
Dogs perform well off chicken, fish, beaver meat, rabbit/fat mix. All these last meals contain very lil carb content in them. Thats why i ask whats a good amount of cards.
Maybe a break down of what a 35lb dog would need also for folks with smaller hounds.
You have to understand a good amount before you can establish
Before you can figure out whats overloading..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck E. Owens
I am just about to launch the new software to completely change this entire site, which is taking up all of my time, but when I do I will come back here and answer this in detail (long response required).
Jack
Does a dog need simple carbs ( cytomax, gatoraid,) to replenish glucose in it's muscles like a person does before, after and during training?
The short answer is, it depends. For short bursts, yes, but for longer endurance feats, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonbulldog
First of all, dogs store glycogen in their muscles, not glucose. If you read the article, Running On Empty, Alaskan sled dogs are given a 60-70% fat diet, and travel incredible distances (100 miles/day), without ever seeming to get tired.
The initial belief regarding canine conditioning and supplementation was to apply what is true about humans to dogs. However, what was found that the dog is unique and (where we cannot process fat-into-energy very well) the dog has a 400% greater capacity to pull turn fat into useable energy, and has a metabolism that prefers to draw from fat, even when carbs are available. This is in stark contrast to the human metabolism. In fact, here is a key quote:
"Stranger still, by the later stages of a race like the Iditarod, glycogen stores actually increase, indicating that the dogs are relying almost exclusively on fats for fuel. It is as though a cellular switch is flipped following the first hard day of racing, after which the dogs’ muscles seem to prefer burning fats over carbohydrates."
Therefore, current thinking is that dogs have a very minimal need for carbohydrates in long-distance affairs.
Jack
I said Joe Montania....that's what I ment;) So in competition a dog could use simple carbs because he is bursting short? And fat ,cuz he's processing it like no other, for the endurance?
How much would you feed and what would you feed a dog (you pick the weight) before a competition? And what over the counter supplements too?
Al that is in my book :mrgreen:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonbulldog
But I will get to it and post it all up here after awhile :)
Jack
Ok Jack it's been 3 months lol...
LMAO, Touché :embarrassed:
Stephen M. Roth, a professor in the department of kinesiology at the University of Maryland, explains.
As our bodies perform strenuous exercise, we begin to breathe faster as we attempt to shuttle more oxygen to our working muscles. The body prefers to generate most of its energy using aerobic methods, meaning with oxygen. Some circumstances, however, --such as evading the historical saber tooth tiger or lifting heavy weights--require energy production faster than our bodies can adequately deliver oxygen. In those cases, the working muscles generate energy anaerobically. This energy comes from glucose through a process called glycolysis, in which glucose is broken down or metabolized into a substance called pyruvate through a series of steps. When the body has plenty of oxygen, pyruvate is shuttled to an aerobic pathway to be further broken down for more energy. But when oxygen is limited, the body temporarily converts pyruvate into a substance called lactate, which allows glucose breakdown--and thus energy production--to continue. The working muscle cells can continue this type of anaerobic energy production at high rates for one to three minutes, during which time lactate can accumulate to high levels.
A side effect of high lactate levels is an increase in the acidity of the muscle cells, along with disruptions of other metabolites. The same metabolic pathways that permit the breakdown of glucose to energy perform poorly in this acidic environment. On the surface, it seems counterproductive that a working muscle would produce something that would slow its capacity for more work. In reality, this is a natural defense mechanism for the body; it prevents permanent damage during extreme exertion by slowing the key systems needed to maintain muscle contraction. Once the body slows down, oxygen becomes available and lactate reverts back to pyruvate, allowing continued aerobic metabolism and energy for the body¿s recovery from the strenuous event.
Contrary to popular opinion, lactate or, as it is often called, lactic acid buildup is not responsible for the muscle soreness felt in the days following strenuous exercise. Rather, the production of lactate and other metabolites during extreme exertion results in the burning sensation often felt in active muscles, though which exact metabolites are involved remains unclear. This often painful sensation also gets us to stop overworking the body, thus forcing a recovery period in which the body clears the lactate and other metabolites.
Researchers who have examined lactate levels right after exercise found little correlation with the level of muscle soreness felt a few days later. This delayed-onset muscle soreness, or DOMS as it is called by exercise physiologists, is characterized by sometimes severe muscle tenderness as well as loss of strength and range of motion, usually reaching a peak 24 to 72 hours after the extreme exercise event.
Though the precise cause of DOMS is still unknown, most research points to actual muscle cell damage and an elevated release of various metabolites into the tissue surrounding the muscle cells. These responses to extreme exercise result in an inflammatory-repair response, leading to swelling and soreness that peaks a day or two after the event and resolves a few days later, depending on the severity of the damage. In fact, the type of muscle contraction appears to be a key factor in the development of DOMS. When a muscle lengthens against a load--imagine your flexed arms attempting to catch a thousand pound weight--the muscle contraction is said to be eccentric. In other words, the muscle is actively contracting, attempting to shorten its length, but it is failing. These eccentric contractions have been shown to result in more muscle cell damage than is seen with typical concentric contractions, in which a muscle successfully shortens during contraction against a load. Thus, exercises that involve many eccentric contractions, such as downhill running, will result in the most severe DOMS, even without any noticeable burning sensations in the muscles during the event.
Found dis article... Dont know if its sceintifly backed up....and if its applicable to dogs
The last dog I worked got 15% carbs in his diet. I'm gonna try to knock that down closer to 10-12% the next time. I posted an article on this site under the the Conditioning Articles, Rendering Sense into Fat, that will explain a lot of what ya'll are wanting to know.
Carbo loading WILL give your dog a 10/15 min turbo boost at the start, wich wil give him a extra15 min of energy overal..
How about the negative effects Jack has highlighted in the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Limey Kennels
wel there are always 2 sides to a story and ore flip side to every coin!. same as raw feeding and kibble. They both have merrit.and both have flaws and good points. my info and ecsperienced is not only backt up bij myself but from famouse dogman from the past from colby/ armitage/ mayfield ecetera ecetera. but iven more imoprtend from the greyhound world, where the sprinters get more carbs and the stayers more fat, yet in those diets the gross is stil carbs.. when you are dealing with Eli/alligator ore pure bully ore those typ of dogs they do have a ecsposif driving start where they use up massif amounds of fuel. where the bolio tombstone/ redboy typ of dogs ""dont"", they are usualy dogs that take the botoom and ore are very good clever dogs that ride the head in retreat.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
those type of dogs cary better on a more fat/protien typ diet.then the other who need that torque..
most dogman preach gospel on there own ecsperienses and ore so called sientific studies who lack real live testing and ore are based on humans ore sledge dogs.ore wolfs wich is compleatly irelevand when it comes to our breed..
a dog in contray to man only swet out of there mouths and feet .
the APBT is a sub spiecies evolved into a compleatly diferend animal, where it looks like a dog , shits like a dog ""eats"" like a dog pissis like a dog , but it has nothing more to do with what the world considers a dog..
This true human slection ""against"" the rulles of nature!!.
never sientificly reasearchst due to the iligal caracter where the breed has lived and bred in..
At the same time Sledge dogs who are often refeurd to as a comparison in food discussions consirning diets., work in ecstreem cold iviromends lots of fresh and DENSH air carying ""lots"" of oxygen, wich is needed to ""burn"" the fat fuel witch is the ""slowest"" energy fuel dilivery there is for man AND dog ore any mamal for that matter, (look at artic animals they NEED fat insted of carbs as a energy and isolation sours)
where as carbs used 1/3 less oxygen to be used as a quik fuel dilivery. you can compear it with gasoline and diesel fuel, and our dogs are hybrids in that matter... at the same time the sledge dog works with his mouth ""open"" Being able to consume ""vasts"" amounds of cold fresh ""densh"" air to be ""able"" to burn of the fat. and cope with the heat that comes along with that. insted of a APBT who works with his mouth ""closed"" in ""hotter"" inviremends with mutch ""less"" oxygen intake is availeble to use ..
where fat wil be a mutch slower energy sours... just like a bad tunned cumbustion engine who cant properly burn its fuel due to bad air fuel ratio!..
So those type of comparisens and teoryes is like comparing apples with oranges....
now you might say wel what if the carbs are burned of afther 15 min. then the dog needs to go to the fat fuel and the lactic asidproduced tru fast burned carbs wil make him runn hot ..absolutly ""true"", But that same dog is on his fat resirves 15 min later!!!!!!!. And wil run just as hot afther 20/25 min as the fat diet dog who due to the lesser oxygen air fuel ration intake, is running just as hot!!!!!!!!!!Being forced to tug along with the energy onslought of a carb fueld dog that defenatly has a faster pace........ so teoreticly the carb loaded dog has more fuel reserves for the long run ... NOW if he faces a mutch better uponend then al of this gose out the window!!. never the less. conditioners try to get the dog in max shape ore chanse to compeat.. and at times where it comes douwn to the nitty gritty. i lean to the carb loaded dog... this being said AGAIN it thepends on what typ of dogs from what type of bloodlines ore famelies your dealing with..
I know these dogs quite well. They are 40 minute killers. If they can't stop you in that amount of time ,you are going to win. Hense the carb load diet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfoot
I also noticed that about Fat Bill's keep. When I had my dogs on it, they had energy for about 40-45 minutes. After that they were done and just holding on to the other dog.
The reason sled dogs are used in research surrounding fat/carbs is due to the endurance aspect. It has nothing to do with how cold it is. It's related to the conditioning of the dog for the event. The entire issue about carbs/fats is that the dog should be changed at least 4-6 weeks to a higher fat diet so the dog's body grows accustomed to the higher fat content. Lower carbs/higher fat improves the conditioning of the dog. The conditioning allows the dog to do what? Go at a faster pace, for longer, if properly conditioned. Carb loading is great for people. Carb loading simply isn't optimal for dogs as it simply isn't their primary energy source, and that will never change.
ignorense is bliss i gues, as carb loading has EVERYTING to do with it........... read ""with our"" dogs when it comes to heat, cold dense air, ecetera in order to adjust diet /conditioning. Are you aware or where you around where upto the mid 70,s of the last century.. Shows where agreed upon minimum and maximum hights above sea level as wel !!. To compensate for bad non dense air, ore the oposit. To get as mutch advantige for there dogs!!??... Why do you think the greatest atleats train high up in the mountains!! ..
cold and heat and densh air has EVERYTING to do with burning diferend fuels and getting the max out of the fuel used.. hell if you runn your sledge dogs team ABOVE a sirtin temparature you get aressted in some of parts of the world!! because they heat up so quik... why do you think these type of dogs can sleep perfectly wel in minus 30 in snow storms .. it isend just there nice fury coats my frind..Its there genetic make up and those are compleatly diferend then our dogs.
And its very Obviusly that you dont fuel up a diesel engine with gasoline !.
and sins when thuse the APBT do its thing on a steady pace when sporting????????, where cruising speed is esentional in order to ditermen how far and long they CAN runn!!!!!.......
you think a texas condition fat/protien diet dog at sea level can compeat when he gets up in the mountains with the same heat?? and less oxygen levels in the air!!. that dog wil fall flat on its face within 25 min to never rize on its feet again... now feed that dog carbs with his fat and protien diet. and you see a diferend picture as carbs need 1/3 less oxygen to burn and diliver enery... last but not least did anybody ore you ever tought about WHERE those sientific studies on those sledge dogs and there diets where held!!??. i can tell you one thing it wassend in Texas ore new mexico ore in loisiana!!.................
Limey, have you read these articles on the forum?