Feeding fat source

Im feeding raw and have for a while,during the cold months i struggles to keep weight on the dogs so i wanted to introduce a fat source,i read somewhere that a piece of lard would be sufficient and so cut a full block into 6 and fed one each ontop of their feed,the dogs kept their weight and as the warmer weather comes i took out the lard. Now a friend has since told me its the worse thing i could give to them as it puts extra fat on internal organs etc,i fully accept that bit for the amount they get i don't believe it does any harm,however,if it does,then what alternative fat source would you all reccomend or use?

I alternate oil sources. Beef fat, chicken fat, and I also use lard. A heaping spoon every other day or every third day would do no harm.

For beef fat Walmart usually carries cow cheek. It looks like half meat/half fat. This is a good source of beef fat that is economical as well.

EWO

Westcountry. Internal organs have a fat around them anyway. Feeding them lard isn't going to do anything bad to your dog or it's organs, and if it DOES add some extra fat (because your friend doesn't KNOW), then that's ok also.

Thanks for that laf,i will continue with lard. Much appreciated.

Different oils are superior to lard. Fish oil, Wheat Germ, Flaxseed and Salmon are my choices.
Lard is perfectly fine though.

When it comes to dogs and their fat, I don't really think one is superior to the other. Flaxseed isn't really all that good for dogs as they simply don't assimilate the way we do which is why I stopped using that years ago.

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Originally Posted by FrostyPaws

When it comes to dogs and their fat, I don't really think one is superior to the other. Flaxseed isn't really all that good for dogs as they simply don't assimilate the way we do which is why I stopped using that years ago.

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Agree with Frosty here, and I think you can just be mindful to continue to use natural sources, as well as some of the oils. Salmon oil, Cod, etc are all good along with some fat from meat..

An old timer told me every winter he buys 600lbs of trimmings from a butcher, individually packages it up and adds the cuts to his normal feed to keep his hounds fat during winter. He lives in NJ.

It's hard to get weight back up in winter once lost so I start adding more calories to the diet before winter begins and I'm able maintain an ideal chain weight for the entire season.

In winter my dogs are not fat looking either.

I believe Wheat Germ, Flaxseed, Fish Oil and Salmon Oil are all superior to Lard.
Different oils provide different things, like some are strong in Omega 3's while others are your ticket for Omega 6's. These oils will surpass Lard in these categories.

I usually use wheat or rice bran oil but now I am using the ground beef residue that's scraped off the grills and discarded @ burger joints. Gonna give it a try, plus it's for the free99. We are currently eating Fudruckers. Lol.

Be careful, the scrapings may have degreaser, or some type of cleaner in them. My best

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Originally Posted by Kendall Hoyle

Be careful, the scrapings may have degreaser, or some type of cleaner in them. By best

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Never thought about that but I'll find out if they actually use a degreaser/cleaner for their grill. If they do, I'll see if that goes in their tub of fats as well. I know they dump all the fat and grease off the grill everyday. Good looking out though.

When I"m feeding the oils, fat, or lard, I'm not feeding them for the omegas in them. I'm feeding it because fat is the main energy source, and a hard working dog needs lots of fat in order to operate properly. If I'm worried about omegas and what not, I'll get that from the actual food. I'm not concerned about that coming from my fat sources, so to me, they're all the same thing. One isn't superior to the other as the dog's body assimilates it all the same except flaxseed, which is waste when using for a dog.

Frosty - I would like a more detailed explaination of why Flaxseed is a waste for dogs. I'm always looking to learn, revamp and improve my diet.

Here's what I currently feed my 17 dogs, daily.
1 Egg
2 Oz Yogurt
1/4 Teaspoon of Cell Red for vitamins
1 Oz Wheat Germ/Flaxseed/Fish Oil (only one a day rotated daily)
2 Oz Liver
6-8 Oz Chicken Thigh or Quarter

If I can eliminate Flaxseed and get everything I need, including the Omega 3's and 6's, then I'm all in.

So far, the above diet has been the best formula for me thus far and my dogs look great. In deer season, I take all internal organs, grind into a mix and add 2 oz of this to the above in addition to the deer carcasses.

That is a great feed. If I had the same recipe I would drop the 2oz of liver and up the chicken to some fatty cuts like backs. The hunks of skin and fat, plus a little more bone.

I use wheat germ oil as well, but I mix and match the fats, and lean toward the more easily digestible ones like chicken and beef fat. One of the best cuts for the dogs is cow cheek. it is a really fatty cut of meat. A chunk of that in place of the liver would be better, at least in my opinion.

I do Red Cell as well. I alternate days on that as well.

Nice recipe. I'm sure it works well.

Looking for Frosty's response as well.

EWO

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

Frosty - I would like a more detailed explaination of why Flaxseed is a waste for dogs. I'm always looking to learn, revamp and improve my diet.

Here's what I currently feed my 17 dogs, daily.
1 Egg
2 Oz Yogurt
1/4 Teaspoon of Cell Red for vitamins
1 Oz Wheat Germ/Flaxseed/Fish Oil (only one a day rotated daily)
2 Oz Liver
6-8 Oz Chicken Thigh or Quarter

If I can eliminate Flaxseed and get everything I need, including the Omega 3's and 6's, then I'm all in.

So far, the above diet has been the best formula for me thus far and my dogs look great. In deer season, I take all internal organs, grind into a mix and add 2 oz of this to the above in addition to the deer carcasses.

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I like the way this diet looks NQK. What if any difference do you see not including the boiled rice? And do you not include and vegetables at some point in this diet?

"Flax oil is often touted as a good omega-3 source but the omega-3’s in flax oil are not in a form that dogs can incorporate in their body and so they become a very expensive substitute for vegetable oil."

Arleigh Reynolds, DVM

There's an article I posted on here, Rendering Sense Into Fat. I would recommend everyone reading it.

I have been feeding raw for 20 years
just a few remarks from my end , nothing scientific just observation

1) my main source is chicken fat , I use a lil salmon oil , some yoghurt once in a while
2) dogs on meat tend to be leaner , they have more inner fat so they may look thinner
3) I feed twice a day since the last 6 years they tend to keep weight better

one thing I also changed is that I noticed its better to switch up meat like trhow a fish head or some other stuff trough their weekly diet

hope this helps

Fish is a good source of protein. I have used it during normal feeding for protein and calorie content.

A number of years ago I was switching protein sources during a keep. A pattern developed as the work day after fish was the primary protein source the dogs did not have as much gas in the tank. They tended to be 'little hot' earlier in the work. The next day after chicken/red meat they seemed to be back on track. I put that off on the individual dog.

The next dog that came thru I saw the same. I'm not sure if it was that the fish is not a staple during the rest of the year and the body does not acclimate as well or maybe the fish is not a good idea for a dog in keep.

I still use it as there is I have a pretty good supply for the cheap. I use it during the year.

EWO

Interesting will keep an eye on it

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Originally Posted by BLADE

I like the way this diet looks NQK. What if any difference do you see not including the boiled rice? And do you not include and vegetables at some point in this diet?

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I give all credit to Jack for putting all of this stuff together in his PBB. I've taken what's there, as most here, and have messed with it to get to where I'm currently at with what I feed. I get that the economy version includes rice and it's fine and by far better than kibble, but it's still something not natural to a dog's diet. That's the only reason I don't include it. That and the fact that I like to prep my weekly feed a certain way and making enough rice for 17 dogs for a week would just irritate me. I would rather pay a little more and get what I want (invest) than spend more time and less money boiling and keeping rice in a fridge that's already full of dog feed. I do not include any veggies. Reason being is real simple. I cross referenced the economy raw to the ideal raw and took the things I like best. I seems if you are not going to feed veggies, you should feed a good multi-vitamin in it's place. That's what I do. I take 4 32oz containers of yogurt and mix 8 oz of Red Cell with it. I stir it all up. It doesn't separate at all so it works well. I make sure it's well blended and each dog get's 1'4 cup of this with their feed, thus getting about 1 teaspoon of red cell. I use the horse formula so I can use less of it and get more.

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Originally Posted by FrostyPaws

"Flax oil is often touted as a good omega-3 source but the omega-3’s in flax oil are not in a form that dogs can incorporate in their body and so they become a very expensive substitute for vegetable oil."

Arleigh Reynolds, DVM

There's an article I posted on here, Rendering Sense Into Fat. I would recommend everyone reading it.

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Thanks Frosty

You've sold me. I've been looking at it for a while now. I'm kinda a hair splitter when it comes to some of this stuff and can over think for sure. However, I think the Salmon oil will provide my dogs with all the omega 3's they need and what I'll be doing on my next order is simply feeding Wheat Germ and Salmon oil. That's it. I do keep Lard on hand but I like these two oils alot. I think a daily rotation from Wheat to Salmon will do the trick for sure.

Thanks dude.

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

I give all credit to Jack for putting all of this stuff together in his PBB. I've taken what's there, as most here, and have messed with it to get to where I'm currently at with what I feed. I get that the economy version includes rice and it's fine and by far better than kibble, but it's still something not natural to a dog's diet. That's the only reason I don't include it. That and the fact that I like to prep my weekly feed a certain way and making enough rice for 17 dogs for a week would just irritate me. I would rather pay a little more and get what I want (invest) than spend more time and less money boiling and keeping rice in a fridge that's already full of dog feed. I do not include any veggies. Reason being is real simple. I cross referenced the economy raw to the ideal raw and took the things I like best. I seems if you are not going to feed veggies, you should feed a good multi-vitamin in it's place. That's what I do. I take 4 32oz containers of yogurt and mix 8 oz of Red Cell with it. I stir it all up. It doesn't separate at all so it works well. I make sure it's well blended and each dog get's 1'4 cup of this with their feed, thus getting about 1 teaspoon of red cell. I use the horse formula so I can use less of it and get more.

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Man that all makes sense, thanks for the feedback. I always find myself looking for for more cost efficient ways to feed Raw without neglecting to include a good balance of necessary ingredients. And even though my numbers stay closer to the ten head mark I have to agree that the rice cooking and storage gets aggravating as hell.

I started a topic on another related Raw feeding subject some time back but it never went anywhere, the topic was feeding Horse meat. A point was made that horse is very lean meat which is true but I have a very good supply of free Jackasses and Donky's, and these things have plenty of fat on them. I mix it in evenly when I bag the meat to freez it.
The trouble I have is that the only bones small enough to really eat are the ribs. I need to come up with a source of bone to add without driving the price up to where I could just feed chicken without all the work involved in butchering Jacks or Donky's. If you or anyone else has idea's I'd like to hear some feedback. Thanks.

Any of the larger bones would work. Not that I feed stuff as large as a horse but the deer bones are fed here. They drag them over to a corner and gnaw and work til they are gone. I would imaging a horse leg would keep them occupied for sometime. Once a week or so would do fine.

The butchering something that large has to be a job. The deer work in the winter is enough for me. I have a friend who feeds raw to mastiffs in New Mexico. He works with the state to pick up dead animals. Elk, moose type large. He sent a video butchering one that was partially frozen with a Husqvarna. A blood batch to say the least. I can only imagine being on a vacation in New Mexico and driving by "Helter Skelter" on the side of the highway.

I am thinking the horse/jacks would be the same with their size.

EWO

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Originally Posted by EWO

Any of the larger bones would work. Not that I feed stuff as large as a horse but the deer bones are fed here. They drag them over to a corner and gnaw and work til they are gone. I would imaging a horse leg would keep them occupied for sometime. Once a week or so would do fine.

The butchering something that large has to be a job. The deer work in the winter is enough for me. I have a friend who feeds raw to mastiffs in New Mexico. He works with the state to pick up dead animals. Elk, moose type large. He sent a video butchering one that was partially frozen with a Husqvarna. A blood batch to say the least. I can only imagine being on a vacation in New Mexico and driving by "Helter Skelter" on the side of the highway.

I am thinking the horse/jacks would be the same with their size.

EWO

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Thanks for the feedback EWO. Butchering the Jacks is a big job but I've got a pretty good routine to get it done. I had a friend of mine help me with two of them this past weekend. We had them both in ice chest in about 2 1/2 hours total. The next day I deboned, cut and bagged the meat in about four hours by myself.
I did save and froze all the large bones as well. I never really considered them a good source of bone simply because of how long it takes to naw them away but now that you've mentioned it.. I guess as long as they are getting it then it may be enough solely because of how dense they are? The way I was thinking was more around a traditional Raw diet where the whole balance was eaten apon delivery. Thanks again.

In east tx where I live, lots of chicken processing plants. They sell 1000lbs of raw chicken necks for $90. That would be an excellent source of bones for your diet. Man, I wish I had your cheap meat supply.

Chicken necks are a good source as well. It use to be a staple of the diet here. They were dirt cheap. The one day it was like, "Hey they will damn near regular chicken prices", and now I swap between backs and whatever is caught on sale.

EWO

Up until recently, the cheapest chicken I could buy was chicken leg quarters at Walmart. I was paying 76cents a pound for 40# cases. Now the price has dropped to around 54cents a pound. Like NQK said about wishing he could get cheap meat like me (Jack meat) I wish I could get his chicken prices! Lol

Same here. Leg quarters can get down around 59 cents per pound and I jump on these when I see them.

EWO

I bout thighs yesterday for .32lb. I love it

Leg quarters get as low as $.38 a pound around here. Even caught a deal @ $.25 a pound one time. The eggs are for $.40 a dozen too. Crazy but I won't complain. Lol.

Leg quarters here usually hang around the 79 cent mark, wee see some 69's here and there. WalMart gets as low as 59 every now and then. We jump all over those.

EWO