Silver back vs poncho

In a group on facebook the other day the vise grip blood came up in conversation
50/50 split
I chimed in because i have a 15 month old gyp that got into a kennel accident and actual loved the results i seen from her
The conversation spoke on silver back was no producer and poncho was the way to go.....
I seen on here where jack said he liked his silvervack dogs better and brought up tha. Point
My gyp is poncho on top Silver back on bottem so i sat and watched from there
Now i bring this thread here where it belongs who threw the better dogs for ppl who had them first hand

Well I would say off what I seen or know of couldn't go wrong with Poncho for sure. Would love to get some more heavier poncho stuff for sure, it was a dog named Krypto around and he was bred nice and I always was waiting to see if he produced. Seen a few off Silver and didn't see 1 quit at all, there is a son of his around here. He don't have the punch but the dog is most definitely a specialist and a wizard on the head and muzzle. He also is a very game dog, I tried to buy him a few times.

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Originally Posted by Rolltidepride

In a group on facebook the other day the vise grip blood came up in conversation
50/50 split
I chimed in because i have a 15 month old gyp that got into a kennel accident and actual loved the results i seen from her

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Well, Poncho is the more famous dog, and his pups were being sold at a time when I was active (and the game was a lot more wide-open), so more of Poncho's pups got matched.

Both were WAY above-average dogs, of totally different styles: Silverback being deadly; Poncho being a long-distance dismantling specialist.

That your gyp did well is what these genes are designed to do: well they pretty much kick ass wherever they get off the plane :mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by Rolltidepride

The conversation spoke on silver back was no producer and poncho was the way to go.....
I seen on here where jack said he liked his silvervack dogs better and brought up tha. Point

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Silverback was no producer? That's news to me :rolleyes:

A 9-0 record, in times ranging from :20 to 2:36, is a 100% win record. Hard to top that :idea:

Poncho had a lot more Champions, and a couple that won more than 5, but hell most of Poncho's breedings were outcrosses sold as match dogs.

By contrast, every single breeding I did with Silverback were line- and inbreedings, to highly-inbred Poncho bitches, so MOST people bought Silverback dogs as brood dogs :idea:

Not to mention the very fact that of ALL the freaking dogs I have bred, that I placed Silverback alongside Poncho on my avatar here ought to tell anyone with a brain what "I" think of Silverback 8)

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Originally Posted by Rolltidepride

My gyp is poncho on top Silver back on bottem so i sat and watched from there
Now i bring this thread here where it belongs who threw the better dogs for ppl who had them first hand

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There is no way for me to answer "who threw better dogs," as Poncho produced more Champions ... but Silverback has a perfect, 100% win record, bred to Poncho bitches.

When I bred Poncho to Coca Cola, I got the baddest dog I have ever seen, Ch Stormrbinger.

When I bred Silverback's father to Coca Cola's daughter, I got Ch Vengence (cover dog and featured in an article, "Best Dogs I've Ever Seen," by the editor).

When Silverback himself was bred to a double-Poncho bitch, Sassy, this produced PonchoBack, a freaking fabulous dog who outfought everything he was ever put on, and beat a more devastating brother to a Grand Champion in 2:36.

"Tha Point" is they' BOTH were great dogs in their own way, and threw FAR more high-quality dogs than what most people will ever be blessed to own ...

Jack

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

Well I would say off what I seen or know of couldn't go wrong with Poncho for sure. Would love to get some more heavier poncho stuff for sure, it was a dog named Krypto around and he was bred nice and I always was waiting to see if he produced. Seen a few off Silver and didn't see 1 quit at all, there is a son of his around here. He don't have the punch but the dog is most definitely a specialist and a wizard on the head and muzzle. He also is a very game dog, I tried to buy him a few times.

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Thank you.

Most of my dogs are head specialists.

Silverback was an ear/nose/throat dog ... Poncho an ear dog ... Missy an ear/muzzle/armpit dog.

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Thank you.

Most of my dogs are head specialists.

Silverback was an ear/nose/throat dog ... Poncho an ear dog ... Missy an ear/muzzle/armpit dog.

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A very nice dog he is, and he starts on the head and finds his way to the face. I want to say his bottom is heavy Poncho either scream or Dirty Diamond.

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

A very nice dog he is, and he starts on the head and finds his way to the face. I want to say his bottom is heavy Poncho either scream or Dirty Diamond.

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This dog perhaps?

He has some really nice sisters too :mrgreen:

Can't say enough about this one....http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=50063
Like to say thanks to the fellas for this one. 25lbs of hellraiser....

:D

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

This dog perhaps?

He has some really nice sisters too :mrgreen:

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Yes that's the dog right there.

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

Yes that's the dog right there.

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I wish you would get him.

I am sure, if he is like his forebears, that he would STOP 95% of the so-called "badass match dogs" out there HIS WEIGHT.

I can't tell you how many dogs "that bit harder" have been stopped by my dogs.

Dogs like Mystery, Toro, Igor, etc. ... were rolled over and over and over again by their owners ... stopping "badass prospect"-after-"badass prospect" ... outclassing them in every possible way ... "except mouth" ... and were absolutely 100% GAME TO THE CORE ... and yet these Poncho dogs were never actually matched because their idiot-owners felt they weren't "devastating."

That would be like "not matching" Mohammad Ali because he "didn't hit as hard" as Foreman and Liston :@:

Maybe he didn't, but Ali beat their fogging asses on every other important level :idea:

Jack

We killed a daughter off Mystery in those boy's backyard in under 15 minutes. A big issue with why most of those dogs weren't done was the unfortunate vacation time.

Mystery to what?

With what?

And what were the weights?

I don't remember exactly how the gyp was bred I'd have to ask WMD but it was either Mystery to Warlord or it was a gyp off Mystery's daughter bred to Duke Nukem. We used a Patrick dog from down south we called Cherry. She was off Koko to J Lo. I haven't gotten around to building her pedigree yet. She killed one in school then went :56 in terrible shape, then she finished WMD's bitch in very short order. Very high finish

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Originally Posted by BulldogConnection

I don't remember exactly how the gyp was bred I'd have to ask WMD but it was either Mystery to Warlord or it was a gyp off Mystery's daughter bred to Duke Nukem. We used a Patrick dog from down south we called Cherry. She was off Koko to J Lo. I haven't gotten around to building her pedigree yet. She killed one in school then went :56 in terrible shape, then she finished WMD's bitch in very short order. Very high finish

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Congratulations on having a fine gyp.

Mystery was a workhorse, and a rock-solid, determined bitch. Not every pup out of every good dog is going to be a world beater ...

If everything was even weight, and yours was truly that good, then congrats :hatsoff:

Jack

PS: Please post a pic and ped when you get the chance ... would be interested in seeing her and looking at the breeding :mrgreen:

BDC's Cherry

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Originally Posted by BulldogConnection

BDC's Cherry

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That is a very nice-looking, well-formed bitch.

As I suspected, it is a heavy Rick Rude/Black Beauty bitch.

That is essentially the only "Patrick" combination (of which I am aware) that competes favorably today on a consistent basis.

That breeding is essentially configured like my Poncho/Coca Cola dogs, if the reader accepts the premise that Hammer and Cheryl Tiegs are brother/sister, actually off of Reuben/Blitz, and that Ch Bobby Jr. is also off of Reuben.

If you have any doubts, take an hour of your time to carefully read this article.

That bitch also looks like she is liver, or chocolate, and not a true red.
Some people don't feel color is important, but if you read about the Chocolate Dogs behind Ouch (and Coca Cola), you might get a better insight as to the finish :)

In my own Poncho/CocaCola dogs, the chocolate/dark red dogs usually had the ability, while the lighter dogs (if red nose) usually didn't (but could produce).

For example, Stormbringer had the ability, but Warlock was the producer.

Similarly, Vengence has the ability, but Techno was the producer.

Jack

PS: In keeping with this, the blonde Duke Nukem was a game, but harmless bum. Their sister Jezebel was a freaking ace: powerful/fast, everything. It is always important not just to read "the pedigrees" behind the dogs, but also to make distinctions between the individuals themselves, littermates, etc., etc.

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Well, Poncho is the more famous dog, and his pups were being sold at a time when I was active (and the game was a lot more wide-open), so more of Poncho's pups got matched.

Both were WAY above-average dogs, of totally different styles: Silverback being deadly; Poncho being a long-distance dismantling specialist.

That your gyp did well is what these genes are designed to do: well they pretty much kick ass wherever they get off the plane :mrgreen:





Silverback was no producer? That's news to me :rolleyes:

A 9-0 record, in times ranging from :20 to 2:36, is a 100% win record. Hard to top that :idea:

Poncho had a lot more Champions, and a couple that won more than 5, but hell most of Poncho's breedings were outcrosses sold as match dogs.

By contrast, every single breeding I did with Silverback were line- and inbreedings, to highly-inbred Poncho bitches, so MOST people bought Silverback dogs as brood dogs :idea:

Not to mention the very fact that of ALL the freaking dogs I have bred, that I placed Silverback alongside Poncho on my avatar here ought to tell anyone with a brain what "I" think of Silverback 8)





There is no way for me to answer "who threw better dogs," as Poncho produced more Champions ... but Silverback has a perfect, 100% win record, bred to Poncho bitches.

When I bred Poncho to Coca Cola, I got the baddest dog I have ever seen, Ch Stormrbinger.

When I bred Silverback's father to Coca Cola's daughter, I got Ch Vengence (cover dog and featured in an article, "Best Dogs I've Ever Seen," by the editor).

When Silverback himself was bred to a double-Poncho bitch, Sassy, this produced PonchoBack, a freaking fabulous dog who outfought everything he was ever put on, and beat a more devastating brother to a Grand Champion in 2:36.

"Tha Point" is they' BOTH were freaking great dogs in their own way, and threw FAR more high-quality dogs than what most people will ever be blessed to own ...

Jack

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Sorry about that typo of tha point
I ment that point
Heres my gyps ped just so yall guys see it

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=47321

This is a well bred bitch. The J-Lo bitch was suppose to mine some time back. She went thru Punchline and Dead Man but should have been here. My loss. LOL. The Kasai dog on the bottom thru mouth out the ying yang to any and every thing he was bred to, and dogs that could already bite got ratcheted up a notch or two.

I'd make a wager on the bottom half of that pedigree not being as advertised. I believe it is actually double bred Kasai on the bottom vs. being Koko top and bottom. Koko threw that chocolate color as well. Kasai threw dogs that look just like him. I'd even bet she barks twice per second 23.5 hours per day. I bet she will work til she falls, catch a quick breath and go again. I bet on the end of the lead one would think it is a 60lb. dog pulling. Plain freak strong.

Big fan.

Nice looking female.

EWO

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Originally Posted by BulldogConnection

BDC's Cherry

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I have been breeding my heavy Poncho/Mayday dogs with heavy Silverback blood for a minute and I couldn't be more pleased with the results. And although they are young upcomers they are peeling the shell and cutting airsupply to some very talented and defensive prospects that unfortunately had to be put down due to machismo attitudes on the other owners behalves. Infuse Poncho/Silverback and get the best of both worlds....Kilo

P.S. Love the way the Cherry bitch is bred she's gorgeous!

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Originally Posted by Kilo

I have been breeding my heavy Poncho/Mayday dogs with heavy Silverback blood for a minute and I couldn't be more pleased with the results. And although they are young upcomers they are peeling the shell and cutting airsupply to some very talented and defensive prospects that unfortunately had to be put down due to machismo attitudes on the other owners behalves. Infuse Poncho/Silverback and get the best of both worlds....Kilo

P.S. Love the way the Cherry bitch is bred she's gorgeous!

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I'm sure you have a few things lined up coming up in the future, will certainly be in touch with you.

Unfortunately cannot say what vengence production capability was because he had zero ability to do so. He may have been ability and production but being sterile is a raw deal with such a capable hound. His bro choko has put some nice ones out there. Always have liked the look and what I've seen and heard from this stuff. And on a side note jack. They took a daughter of that gr CH littermate of ponchobacks opponent to a son of silverback. An interesting combo of solid hounds.

I saved Ch Vengence life. His owner tried cranking him up with a male that was not fully started himself, he then pulled him and tried starting him with a rough bitch that was in heat (SMH) Vengence was completely confused at this point and his owner was going to shoot the 13 month old Warrior. I pointed out from the get go he had fucked him wrong in every way possible. I told him to take him home let him mature out some more and try him again. The next go around I personally picked one out for him off a buddy's yard that was fully started and didnt fuck around. Vengence handled his ass with ease and figured out real quick by controling the ivory would not get touched. He blew through several more prospects without a single scratch. Few months later got his first win. I bred twice to Ch Vengence and got nothing. I used a daughter of VISE-GRIP'S CHASE POR and a Daughter of VISE-GRIP'S HERO. Truely a heartbreaking disappointment to know he could not produce.....Kilo

Jesus, I wonder how many quality dogs are wasted because of owners like that? Sad

Hundreds. Thousands. Far too many to count.

(don't think he is in this database.)

I saw ABU as a 14 month old. Same story. Not ready. A big puppy. He did not fire up and whoop the world on his first attempt so he was a cull. I liked how he was bred and had seen some good ones from that bottom side. I talked him into letting me use him. Brought him home, gave him some time, gave him a few lessons and he blossomed. For whatever reason when he turned on, been schooled and ready for a shot he decided to be a bad habit dog. From an easy keeper to a chain getter.

We scheduled him a shot and he showed well. Broken and flattened hangers and all. With teeth and good habits could have done more. But since he didn't stop the world at 14-15 months he was a cull.

Unfortunately it happens all the time.

EWO

Where can i get some of the silver back poncho stock that's working

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Originally Posted by Kilo

I saved Ch Vengence life. His owner tried cranking him up with a male that was not fully started himself, he then pulled him and tried starting him with a rough bitch that was in heat (SMH) Vengence was completely confused at this point and his owner was going to shoot the 13 month old Warrior. I pointed out from the get go he had fucked him wrong in every way possible. I told him to take him home let him mature out some more and try him again. The next go around I personally picked one out for him off a buddy's yard that was fully started and didnt fuck around. Vengence handled his ass with ease and figured out real quick by controling the ivory would not get touched. He blew through several more prospects without a single scratch. Few months later got his first win. I bred twice to Ch Vengence and got nothing. I used a daughter of VISE-GRIP'S CHASE POR and a Daughter of VISE-GRIP'S HERO. Truely a heartbreaking disappointment to know he could not produce.....Kilo

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Good thing for Vengeance you were there #:-S

It is absolutely astounding how hard some people try to fuck up a wet dream ... literally by doing every single thing wrong ... and yet "the dog" gets the bullet ... when IN FACT the owner deserves the bullet :angry:

Jack

As an offspring of Silverbacks, how was Coca-Rilla as far as traits and how she produced,.seems she took after Silverbacks as far as color type....would really like to know.

The Duke Nukem dogs I've seen (I can count them on one hand) were all busy workers but no mouth and not very high ability. One son of Duke I rolled with was a short, stocky built, hard driving no mouth no ability dog who beat some bum 1w OTC and then got killed in his first and only contracted match by a bad ass puppy used as a replacement. Never saw that dog make a bad sign though.

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Originally Posted by BulldogConnection

The Duke Nukem dogs I've seen (I can count them on one hand) were all busy workers but no mouth and not very high ability. One son of Duke I rolled with was a short, stocky built, hard driving no mouth no ability dog who beat some bum 1w OTC and then got killed in his first and only contracted match by a bad ass puppy used as a replacement. Never saw that dog make a bad sign though.

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It's been years back but I lost a male off of Duke Nukem X Sharzy to a horrific yard accident http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=54123 his name was Kilo's Deuce. when this male was only 18 months old he got off his chain and into a hard biting Turtle Buster male after exchanging and taking about the size of a baseball of flesh from the Turtle Buster dogs shoulder he was grabbed by another dog named Bucky that my buddy was holding for a good friend of ours that had paid 30k for this fully schooled out prospect he was bred and schooled by a very well known dogman. Well I'm sure Bucky and Kenny played tug o war with Deuces' ass for awhile as our dogs at the time only had about 2ft of space between each chain spot. Anyways He was having dogs stolen that is why my buddy brought the dog to our yard. To make a long story short that 30k prospect looked about a $2.50 cent hooker when Deuce was done with his ass. He then was grabbed by another next chain spot over all in all he destroyed 4 hard biting SOB's smashing out most of the teeth on the third one by the fourth dog he had died leaving a trail of pure disaster in dead winter during a storm. So you could imagine what my buddy said when I called him and said I dont think this 30k dog is going to make it haha I only got 2 pups out of this breeding to Duke Nukem and both could close that mouth very well. My experience with mine. Kilo

Hey Kilo, you still got Lil Boom? You doing breedings with him?

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

Hey Kilo, you still got Lil Boom? You doing breedings with him?

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No I sold Lil Boom as a pup to a guy named Joe in Southern Cali. He then sold him to a Kennel in Phillipines, I believe he is a member of this board. He was lost in a typhoon or hurricane of some sort I cant remember which. But Lil Boom produced some nice dogs in the few breedings they made with him a 4xw numerous 2xers and 1xers. And I belive a few they have in schooling now from what I read on a diffrent post. My Big Boom male (Lil Booms Sire) is still alive and will be 12 years old in August if I remember right. He is in impecablae health and I just got a litter of 7 off him to my Double bred Ch Serious bitch. who is also in pretty damn good health herself. Kilo

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Originally Posted by Kilo

No I sold Lil Boom as a pup to a guy named Joe in Southern Cali. He then sold him to a Kennel in Phillipines, I believe he is a member of this board. He was lost in a typhoon or hurricane of some sort I cant remember which. But Lil Boom produced some nice dogs in the few breedings they made with him a 4xw numerous 2xers and 1xers. And I belive a few they have in schooling now from what I read on a diffrent post. My Big Boom male (Lil Booms Sire) is still alive and will be 12 years old in August if I remember right. He is in impecablae health and I just got a litter of 7 off him to my Double bred Ch Serious bitch. who is also in pretty damn good health herself. Kilo

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Nice and congrats to that bro, I hope you get a few more litters off him. You still mixing that Duke stuff to them?

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

Nice and congrats to that bro, I hope you get a few more litters off him. You still mixing that Duke stuff to them?

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Of course :) I will be breeding Dunuka http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...php?dog_id=324 Deuces littemate sister this spring if all goes well. To which stud I have no idea yet. I know for a fact Duke Nukem was collected so I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see direct offspring off him popping up in the future :)

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Originally Posted by Thunder98

As an offspring of Silverbacks, how was Coca-Rilla as far as traits and how she produced,.seems she took after Silverbacks as far as color type....would really like to know.

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I got a real nice female off Silverback X Coca-Rilla...