When was the last time you've heard of a brindle champion?
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When was the last time you've heard of a brindle champion?
they make champion all the time, what's your point
Some breeders believe in "color traits."
If I am not mistaken, longtime breeder Bert Sorrells once said that all bulldog families known for gameness are either red or buckskin, while all families known for mouth are black.
While we can all think of "exceptions" to any rule, in general there seems to be some truth behind the association of traits with color.
It is a matter of genetic fact that black nose is a dominant trait, while red nose is recessive, and most people believe gameness to be a recessive trait :-?
Hollingsworth, for example, would never breed to a black dog, because of his belief in the above.
Jack
We got some red dogs down here that can really really bite. Lots of game dogs from that same line. However, like Jack said, exceptions to everything.
Tons of Brindle winners.
While some of this stuff is very debatable and you can back or dismiss a ton of it with examples, I believe there are certain things associated with certain colors of certain lines. I use to never think like this, but over the long haul, as Jack has mentioned many times, if you have a line you "know", then you can almost pick the good ones by color, certain types of builds, etc. before they ever do a single thing.
A friend of mine from overseas asked me the same question. I thought i would ask the same question here to get some feedback for a response to my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nut
While some of this stuff is very debatable and you can back or dismiss a ton of it with examples, I believe there are certain things associated with certain colors of certain lines. I use to never think like this, but over the long haul, as Jack has mentioned many times, if you have a line you "know", then you can almost pick the good ones by color, certain types of builds, etc. before they ever do a single thing.
So true!
And its funny Bert S said this because he had a brindle named Goober who was down from Red Jerry .Goober went on and produced Preacher who produced Joe Testament and Joe produced Uncle Bud.I believe he said it though Jack but he sure bred to a brindle named Goober and this is part of the family behind Uncle Bud..
I don't think Bert mentioned brindle dogs, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaman
Honestly, the prejudice for color exists in dogs too.
And, just like people, there are a million "exceptions" to every rule ... and yet there are also certain tendencies as well.
I fell in love with the red/rednose Hollingsworth dogs ... yet my best producing dog, ever, was the buckskin/blacknose Poncho (who I based my entire line on).
When I got the chocolate Ouch, I didn't really like the seal color and I also didn't trust the bottom side of his pedigree (the Mexican Pete's 410).
When the seal Silverback was first born, and as he grew up, I never really used him much as a stud ... for quite awhile.
Silverback was built different from my main dogs, he fought different from my main dogs, and even though he was "highly talented," I didn't trust his stamina like I did my other studs at the time (U-Nhan-Rha / Icon).
Ultimately, however, I wound up selling the fabulous Icon and U-Nhan-Rha, and based the tail-end of my dog breeding career linebreeding on Silverback, exclusively.
I still believe in the "general rules" ... and I still have my biases ... but what's funny now is that, originally I preferred rednose dogs ... then buckskin dogs "that looked like Poncho" ... but now I am biased towards my dogs that look like Silverback :mrgreen:
Ultimately, you should pick the individuals who look/act like THE DOG THEY'RE LINEBRED ON ... as most likely those are the ones who got his/her key traits ... although not always ;)
The moral of the story is FOLLOW THE ABILITIES/GAMENESS you cherish first, and let color fall where it may :idea:
Jack
No , I was just pointing out he did breed to one.Bert had his own way of thinking for sure.He also didn't believe in inbreeding and said that was for a lazy man who didnt want to look for the right stud dog lol.To each his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
PS: Silverback proved to throw the same level of gameness/stamina/ability as my other Poncho dogs ... though, of course, this is because I bred him to my longwinded Poncho bitches :mrgreen:
- White Tiger's PonchoBack (2xW, last one in 2:36)
- WildChild's Prime Ape (1xW in 1:43)
- CSK's Sir Kilo (1xL, DG in 3:35)
This was Goober.
This is Goobers son Preacher.
This is Preachers son Joe Testament the father of Uncle Bud.So you can see the brindle color behind the Uncle Bud Blood .Jack I apologize if I did this wrong as I am not very good at this sort of thing.
Thanks for the new pic of Preacher :)
Lots of brindle Champions overseas. A few produced by Sumy's Reno come to mind...
A.B.K.'s (Forest Knl's) Ch Grave Digger 4xw ~ Devastating dog
Big Demon's (Sumy's) Ch Zmey 4xW BIS ~ Pit savvy intelligent dog
Mortal Kombat's Ch Deebo 3xW BIS GIS ~Deep, Deep game dog!
Honourable mention: Joj's & Rampage's Cerber 2xW BIS ~ Very nice dog going for #3 in the spring.
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=31593
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=30037
And prejudice does exist. My dogs throw brindle, red/ red noses, buckskin, and then the whites. I give the whites away at 6 weeks old. I know that's crazy and people be running for them. One friend of mine say it has the same blood as the rest but since I breed my own dogs I cull for what I want. Just don't like white dogs and really don't care for a black one.
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...eeding_id=7448 GONE :lol:
Bert S, is the man that said "Breed em tight, Breed em right."Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaman
IMO crossing would be what the lazy man would do who is expecting instant gratification than trying to see what that line has to offer when inbred .Much more time and effort into trying to cover all bases within a family bred tight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEazy
i think alot peddler try to breed what everyones else likes these days instead of what makes them happy and works for them not everyone as some have been breeding along time and have a pact down method of there own breeding programs and standards one the best brindle champions up this way was a heavy mccol carver dog named ch sooner and have seen good and not so good brindles and even had a couple here that i bred up that didn't make the grade we all prefer what we like in our own breedings though just word of advice color only means so much seen a cur in every color
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...&dog_id=406269
ch sooner a good dog and produced alot good hunters up this way
well either way every breeding your gonna go threw dont matter how its bred if your really out performing with it sure keeping a tight family is hard work but its just as hard to cross the lines you like and make a family or a solid foundation from different crosses or surely just as hard there is line breeding as well that can be loose bred but tight on a few specific worthy dogs there is no holy grale to breeding or anything in these dogs its just alot hard work and dedication that will take you ahead the game no matter your methods to madness some methods work for one might not for the other
Love to see a example.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEazy
Keep in mind I never said he didn't believe in breeding tight, but did say he didn't like inbreeding.As many stud dogs as Bert owned in his time thier should be examples of a inbred litter , if he did any.
It was on his website before he closed it...Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaman
Do you think that everyone will share every breeding that's done? Study Jack's breeding habits. He is one of the best at breeding, did he inbreed... Carver,Garner,Mayfield,Irish Jerry,Crenshaw,Duckworth,Mims,Hammonds,Bradshaws,M arlowe,Crews,Tant,Hardcore, there's a plethora of great breeders that inbred.Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaman
Big easy if you go back and read my post you will not see where I said that I disagree with inbreeding.I have done it myself,as a matter of fact I said to each their own.All I said was Bert didn't believe in it.Floyd B would be the master at inbreeding ,,IMO..And he did a great job with his family of dogs,many,many winners.Again I have no problem with inbreeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEazy
Hammonds is not someone known for Inbreeding. There were a few inbred litters in the early 80's but that was it. I've known him over 20 years and in that time, there was only one two father to daughter breedings from his stock I know of. Myself and another guy were the ones that did them both. Not GH. He doesn't believe in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEazy
The quote was on his website before he shut it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaman
Yeah, but he does alot of uncle to niece type breedingsQuote:
Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel
I don't doubt it was on there But just because someone says this , it doesn't automatically mean they inbreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEazy
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=22877
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...res/405364.jpg
He was the best TERMITE/YELLOW dog I ever owned... and I had quite a few years back... Needless to say, I hated him as a pup, just because he was brindle.
In my day,the color brindle was associated with hardness and durability. Swamp Dweller mentioned his dog being brindle. M. Gainey's J.R. was a brindle dog and on one occasion if true or not. Was told through the grapevine, that Mr. Gainey challenged Tant with a match into his full brother Yellow. Too see which dog was the over all best. I personally (JMHO) felt the J.R. dog was the over all better dog. So anyone who has the J.R. dog in their pedigree can know J.R. was a very good dog. I felt J.R. was a more aggressive/harder biting dog and very determined to take it's opponent out at the first opening opportunity.
After a dog man has breed some dogs for awhile sometimes certain color traits can be associated with the better dogs. Hopefully throw backs to the best dogs in the pedigree line up. A few dog men have called me about certain bitches of theirs crossed or straight off V.J.'s dogs. First thing I ask is what colors are the puppies. I for my own personel reasons encourage them to keep the black pups with white markings in the head/feet and tip of tail. Next choice is the Red Smuts and thirdly any white ones with red or yellow or black ticking in the skin. Last any that are a light and dark tan markings.
I also encourage them to look for the ones with a more Bull Terrier build than a Bulldog build. My example for reference would be Garner's CH Dolly being a clone look a like of my Young's Face bitch. With all said though, the end results is still later down the road when the pudding gets well stirred to see what comes to the top. LOL Cheers.