Sticks in my craw a little

I see this type of sentence over and over. It's not directed at the owner of any particular dog.

"He is consistently throwing dogs that are extremely game, smart, and know how to finish."

As someone who may be, at times, borderline nutty about what an extremely game dog is, I sure would like to know what that means to people when they say such things. When I read that, it makes me think of other folks who are borderline nutty about extremely game dogs, but I just don't have that feeling about 98% of the posts that have those words.

Know how to finish. So, does that mean that a high percentage of dogs off a particular dog have killed an opponent? Know how to finish in the backend? Goes to the guts?

I guess for me, a dog that knows how to finish is one that HAS finished or has been stopped just short of completing the deal. Again, there are not many dogs that will flat out kill an opponent, and I've never seen a dog consistently produce that over and over.

Maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a mole hill, or maybe I'm just irritable today for any number of reasons. Thanks for allowing me to vent just a little. :)

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Originally Posted by FrostyPaws

I see this type of sentence over and over. It's not directed at the owner of any particular dog.

"He is consistently throwing dogs that are extremely game, smart, and know how to finish."

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I think it is used more as a marketing ploy to make the stud sound worth breeding to. Salesmanship!

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Originally Posted by FrostyPaws

I see this type of sentence over and over. It's not directed at the owner of any particular dog.

"He is consistently throwing dogs that are extremely game, smart, and know how to finish."

As someone who may be, at times, borderline nutty about what an extremely game dog is, I sure would like to know what that means to people when they say such things. When I read that, it makes me think of other folks who are borderline nutty about extremely game dogs, but I just don't have that feeling about 98% of the posts that have those words.

Know how to finish. So, does that mean that a high percentage of dogs off a particular dog have killed an opponent? Know how to finish in the backend? Goes to the guts?

I guess for me, a dog that knows how to finish is one that HAS finished or has been stopped just short of completing the deal. Again, there are not many dogs that will flat out kill an opponent, and I've never seen a dog consistently produce that over and over.

Maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a mole hill, or maybe I'm just irritable today for any number of reasons. Thanks for allowing me to vent just a little. :)

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I understand what you mean.

To me, unless someone is repeatedly and consistently producing dogs that win in open competition, their "opinion" on their dog means nothing to me.

However, if a person is breeding dogs that can (and do) seriously compete anywhere, repeatedly, then I simply take their word on their assessments.

Regarding the subject of finish, this is another element where few really know what they're talking about. The Old Man once said, "Jack, what most people call a 'finisher' is a dog that just happened to kill another one accidentally." Meaning the opponent 'happened to die' after the fight, but in no way was the dog a casualty in the pit by a true assassin.

There is a major difference between two dog that fight, both get banged-up, and one 'happens to die' from the injuries afterward ... and a fight where one dog is absolutely going after a kill spot, with the knowledge and intent on killing his foe with that hold. These are typically throat dogs, and gut dogs, and there is no mistaking they know what they're doing, and are hell-bent on doing it. (Many dogs that "like the throat" or "like the stifles" are not even close to being true finishers. When you see a true finisher, there is no mistaking what you're seeing.)

I know all lines differ, but in all honestly I have only owned two 100% finishers in 25 years of owning dogs ... though I have had scores of game, determined dogs "that would kill something" if it went on long enough. The two dogs I am referring to knew exactly what they were doing, and would immediately go for that spot when they had the opportunity, and could DOA a dog with that one hold, if they got it right.

Jack

If they were throwing consitently smart game finishers then we should certainly be reading about the offspring soon lol sounds like the total package to me :-bd

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

I understand what you mean.

To me, unless someone is repeatedly and consistently producing dogs that win in open competition, their "opinion" on their dog means nothing to me.

However, if a person is breeding dogs that can (and do) seriously compete anywhere, repeatedly, then I simply take their word on their assessments.

Regarding the subject of finish, this is another element where few really know what they're talking about. The Old Man once said, "Jack, what most people call a 'finisher' is a dog that just happened to kill another one accidentally." Meaning the opponent 'happened to die' after the fight, but in no way was the dog a casualty in the pit by a true assassin.

There is a major difference between two dog that fight, both get banged-up, and one 'happens to die' from the injuries afterward ... and a fight where one dog is absolutely going after a kill spot, with the knowledge and intent on killing his foe with that hold. These are typically throat dogs, and gut dogs, and there is no mistaking they know what they're doing, and are hell-bent on doing it. (Many dogs that "like the throat" or "like the stifles" are not even close to being true finishers. When you see a true finisher, there is no mistaking what you're seeing.)

I know all lines differ, but in all honestly I have only owned two 100% finishers in 25 years of owning dogs ... though I have had scores of game, determined dogs "that would kill something" if it went on long enough. The two dogs I am referring to knew exactly what they were doing, and would immediately go for that spot when they had the opportunity, and could DOA a dog with that one hold, if they got it right.

Jack

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I agree. If dog A is a finisher, it's usually bad news when dog B needs to take a breather lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrostyPaws

I see this type of sentence over and over. It's not directed at the owner of any particular dog.

"He is consistently throwing dogs that are extremely game, smart, and know how to finish."

As someone who may be, at times, borderline nutty about what an extremely game dog is, I sure would like to know what that means to people when they say such things. When I read that, it makes me think of other folks who are borderline nutty about extremely game dogs, but I just don't have that feeling about 98% of the posts that have those words.

Know how to finish. So, does that mean that a high percentage of dogs off a particular dog have killed an opponent? Know how to finish in the backend? Goes to the guts?

I guess for me, a dog that knows how to finish is one that HAS finished or has been stopped just short of completing the deal. Again, there are not many dogs that will flat out kill an opponent, and I've never seen a dog consistently produce that over and over.

Maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a mole hill, or maybe I'm just irritable today for any number of reasons. Thanks for allowing me to vent just a little. :)

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I know what it is. It's guys who haven't seen enough to understand what you understand. Guys who are excited about their dogs but haven't been exposed enough to know, that they DO NOT know as much as they think they know. If that makes sense. I think we've all been there and forget, rightly so, that we have gone through those stages.

What I used to think a good dog was is not what I think a good dog is today.

BTW - I too am very particular about the wording folks use at times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

I understand what you mean.

To me, unless someone is repeatedly and consistently producing dogs that win in open competition, their "opinion" on their dog means nothing to me.

However, if a person is breeding dogs that can (and do) seriously compete anywhere, repeatedly, then I simply take their word on their assessments.

Regarding the subject of finish, this is another element where few really know what they're talking about. The Old Man once said, "Jack, what most people call a 'finisher' is a dog that just happened to kill another one accidentally." Meaning the opponent 'happened to die' after the fight, but in no way was the dog a casualty in the pit by a true assassin.

There is a major difference between two dog that fight, both get banged-up, and one 'happens to die' from the injuries afterward ... and a fight where one dog is absolutely going after a kill spot, with the knowledge and intent on killing his foe with that hold. These are typically throat dogs, and gut dogs, and there is no mistaking they know what they're doing, and are hell-bent on doing it. (Many dogs that "like the throat" or "like the stifles" are not even close to being true finishers. When you see a true finisher, there is no mistaking what you're seeing.)

I know all lines differ, but in all honestly I have only owned two 100% finishers in 25 years of owning dogs ... though I have had scores of game, determined dogs "that would kill something" if it went on long enough. The two dogs I am referring to knew exactly what they were doing, and would immediately go for that spot when they had the opportunity, and could DOA a dog with that one hold, if they got it right.

Jack

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I agree with your assessment of what a FINISHER is. A whole lot of "What the hell just happened" looks on faces the first time they see one.

FrostyPaws I hear you loud and clear. Na, not a mountain at all, but you raise a VERY good point. IMHO ALL of the things that you described are subjective on one level or another. The only things I take as the gospel is what I have seen myself, most other things are speculation, at best.


The vast majority of times all it takes is two sets of looking at the same thing and you’ll end up with just as many opinions. This can be semantics or tragedy.


You have more than a handful “dogmen” that are simply ignorant, and then you have those that are simply delusional or living for yesterday. I call that a push. The worst is the BS’er that is stuck on stupid who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the wall. You gotta keep them around, it's part of schooling.


Mr. Cooper told me some time ago: “son get yourself a good bitch, and you’ll never want for a bulldog. Bottom line, get good dogs and you’ll never sell another dog, they’ll sell themselves. When you make that call, have your money right, and have done your homework.”

I agree with you guys. At the end of the day everyone's eyes are different. I posted yesterday saying that a particular stud is consistently throwing dogs that are extremely game, smart, and know how to finish. I'm not the owner of the particular stud so it was not a sales pitch and last I checked he was not at public stud. Some guys like to fly under the radar so you don't get a chance to read all the stories. I say extremely game because I have seen his offsprings consistently go the distance with the odds stacked against them when under similar circumstances other ones would quit. When I speak on finishing, I am talking about his offsprings consistently leaving the other one stiff in the [ ], not dying a few days later because of poor aftercare. I use the word consistent because I have seen it from a bunch of his offsprings on several different occasions.

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"He is consistently throwing dogs that are extremely game, smart, and know how to finish."

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a1?

"And this old car was driven by a little old lady, back and forth to church, just on Sundays, maybe an occasional Wednesday night prayer service".

EWO