Mexico "A word of caution"

Just heard what went down in Mex this past weekend and was shocked at what i heard! First of all why would anybody from our side think its a good idea to enter your dog in a "14" card show thats not a typo thats 14. It amazes me, the stupidity of some people. Do not people realize that Mexico like the U.S has outlawed this activity as well as many other crimes ?? Why do some people think that as soon as they cross the border that they are entering the the "Wild West" where everything goes and everything is allowed from DUI, fighting in bars, abusing women, using drugs in public, relieving urself also in public to doing dogs at a 14 card show !! Several people told me that there was literally a line outside the gate to get in the site and that after paying the $80.00-$100 with no interest or verification of who they were or who they knew were given a wrist band to wear and allowed into the show. Not only a line of spectators but also a caravan of over 20-30 vehicles some with crates in the back of their trucks visible for all to see winding their way through the little town to the site!! Boy i wonder where there going?? Lol Are u fukn kiddin me!!! Listen to me guys n gals. Mexico is no longer a safe haven Wake up!! we are not only living in a post 911 world we are living in a post Micheal Vick world !! I realize that we gringos and i include myself with that tag even being Mexican/American. Why? because thats how they look at us overthere we are considered Americanos and rightly so !! we have been going down south to compete against their best for well over a century. Well it aint 1915 anymore when men were men and could be trusted. I am told that this show was visited not once but twice by the federalees and that even after being persuaded to go on their merry way $$ that they informed some there that someone on the "INSIDE" of the show had called them. I said all of that to simply say this. If we are going to survive as a subculture of PROFESSIONAL fanciers then we need to keep our underground outlawed sport UNDERGROUND!! and keep it among us OUTLAWS only!! NO FUCKIN OUTSIDERS!!! Wheww!

What happened exactly?

Word is one of the main players over there who i wont name but im sure youll figure it out is jealous of the fact that someone else has been putting on bigger shows than his hence the 14 carder.. and has been tipping off the local authorities (this also happened back in March) mind you now the suspected informant was also there at this show but what better cover can you have ?? The police showed up and told them that they received info that matches were being held and that everybody was going to have to disband (these fellas had already been paid off to stay away) but because of the size of the crowd and vehicles and the complaint that had been filed they came back a second time and shut it down and guess who had an alternate spot already ready? With walls,wash tubs,scales etc. etc... We dont need to be going overthere! We are at their mercy iv'e been there done that. Back in the 90s it was cool low key everybody met and parked at one location many miles from the site and we were all brought in in a couple vans or even a bus and everybody needed to know somebody or be matching something and if you didnt show up at the parking spot on time you were ass out of luck amigo!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bullyson

Just heard what went down in Mex this past weekend and was shocked at what i heard! First of all why would anybody from our side think its a good idea to enter your dog in a "14" card show thats not a typo thats 14. It amazes me, the stupidity of some people. Do not people realize that Mexico like the U.S has outlawed this activity as well as many other crimes ?? Why do some people think that as soon as they cross the border that they are entering the the "Wild West" where everything goes and everything is allowed from DUI, fighting in bars, abusing women, using drugs in public, relieving urself also in public to doing dogs at a 14 card show !! Several people told me that there was literally a line outside the gate to get in the site and that after paying the $80.00-$100 with no interest or verification of who they were or who they knew were given a wrist band to wear and allowed into the show. Not only a line of spectators but also a caravan of over 20-30 vehicles some with crates in the back of their trucks visible for all to see winding their way through the little town to the site!! Boy i wonder where there going?? Lol Are u fukn kiddin me!!! Listen to me guys n gals. Mexico is no longer a safe haven Wake up!! we are not only living in a post 911 world we are living in a post Micheal Vick world !! I realize that we gringos and i include myself with that tag even being Mexican/American. Why? because thats how they look at us overthere we are considered Americanos and rightly so !! we have been going down south to compete against their best for well over a century. Well it aint 1915 anymore when men were men and could be trusted. I am told that this show was visited not once but twice by the federalees and that even after being persuaded to go on their merry way $$ that they informed some there that someone on the "INSIDE" of the show had called them. I said all of that to simply say this. If we are going to survive as a subculture of PROFESSIONAL fanciers then we need to keep our underground outlawed sport UNDERGROUND!! and keep it among us OUTLAWS only!! NO FUCKIN OUTSIDERS!!! Wheww!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bullyson

Word is one of the main players over there who i wont name but im sure youll figure it out is jealous of the fact that someone else has been putting on bigger shows than his hence the 14 carder.. and has been tipping off the local authorities (this also happened back in March) mind you now the suspected informant was also there at this show but what better cover can you have ?? The police showed up and told them that they received info that matches were being held and that everybody was going to have to disband (these fellas had already been paid off to stay away) but because of the size of the crowd and vehicles and the complaint that had been filed they came back a second time and shut it down and guess who had an alternate spot already ready? With walls,wash tubs,scales etc. etc... We dont need to be going overthere! We are at their mercy iv'e been there done that. Back in the 90s it was cool low key everybody met and parked at one location many miles from the site and we were all brought in in a couple vans or even a bus and everybody needed to know somebody or be matching something and if you didnt show up at the parking spot on time you were ass out of luck amigo!

---

Thanks for the info.

Who is the suspected informant?

We all realize it's not concrete info (yet), but it never hurts to know who to watch out for.

Jack

V.R. do the math my friends!

Whoopdeedo.

Word is, there should be some kind of concrete evidence before calling someone a rat...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Black Hand

Word is, there should be some kind of concrete evidence before calling someone a rat...

---

As someone who has handled "evidence," and built court cases for the insurance industry for nearly 3 decades, the two most compelling factors of crime are (1) opportunity and (2) motive :idea:

People get arrested and questioned all the time, based on these two factors, so (if this was an indictment against VR) and if VR had the motive and opportunity, he would at the very least be brought in and questioned (if not arrested) for being "the receiving beneficiary" of someone else's demise.

While it may be premature to "convict" him of the allegations at this point, and while many of the "facts" may well prove to be baseless allegations, certainly there seems to be enough "circumstantial evidence" to support his being called into question about it :idea:

Whether he ultimately gets convicted, or exonerated, of being called into question is a whole other issue.

Jack

If it walks like a duck, well you all know the rest !

I hear you jack. But there isn't going to be any conviction, exoneration or questioning of anyone. It's just a bunch of hot air on the Internet. One anonymous guy online, talking about some other anonymous guys that he got word from, that some anonymous federalie supposedly told them them that another anonymous person in attendance at this huge 14 card show is the one who made the call. And I really do not mean any disrespect to anyone, but if I'm gonna air you out online I'm going to atleast attach my name to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Black Hand

I hear you jack. But there isn't going to be any conviction, exoneration or questioning of anyone. It's just a bunch of hot air on the Internet. One anonymous guy online, talking about some other anonymous guys that he got word from, that some anonymous federalie supposedly told them them that another anonymous person in attendance at this huge 14 card show is the one who made the call. And I really do not mean any disrespect to anyone, but if I'm gonna air you out online I'm going to atleast attach my name to it.

---

LOL, I hear you back.

There is "so much" in these accusations that needs investigation, verification, and could itself be called into question that it is all hearsay at the moment.

If someone is interested enough, they could start interviewing all of the parties, develop some facts, and get to the bottom of it all, so I do agree that (at this point) it is all speculation, assumption, and undocumented allegations.

Jack

Check this out "Black Hand " im sure thats the name your parents put on your birth cert oh my badd thats the handle you use so YOU can remain anonymous.. It was never my intention to AIR anyone out. If you read my original post you would see that i was simply questioning the stupidity of some within our ranks that go over to these 3 ring circus's in Mexico. To this point no names have been put out there only initials. For all you know VR could stand for Vance Ryan or Vagina Rectum ! The account given of what went down last weekend came 1st hand from eye witnesses that were there at the original site and at the other site provided by the ALLEGED informant. Whether he is or not yet remains to be seen and sooner or later we will all see, just like we all did with R.J. OMG there i go again with name dropping!:-O Whoopdeedoo!!!!

Interesting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bullyson

Check this out "Black Hand " im sure thats the name your parents put on your birth cert oh my badd thats the handle you use so YOU can remain anonymous.. It was never my intention to AIR anyone out. If you read my original post you would see that i was simply questioning the stupidity of some within our ranks that go over to these 3 ring circus's in Mexico. To this point no names have been put out there only initials. For all you know VR could stand for Vance Ryan or Vagina Rectum ! The account given of what went down last weekend came 1st hand from eye witnesses that were there at the original site and at the other site provided by the ALLEGED informant. Whether he is or not yet remains to be seen and sooner or later we will all see, just like we all did with R.J. OMG there i go again with name dropping!:-O Whoopdeedoo!!!!

---

:@:

That back and forth crap between V.R. and F.M. has been going on for some time , and it very well could lead to some serious bullshit for foreign travelers with or with out dogs...hopefully not , but ...!?! Gone are the days when Mapula from BMW was hosting 2 day shows in TJ and Mexicali , free food , dollor beers and NO BULLSHIT what so ever .

You got that right Rhino! Them days are over!! It aint about the dogs anymore its about how many suckers they can get a $100 from. And if you wind up in a mexican jail "Oh Well" thats your problem. The real problem is this, Its just a matter of time when the U.S. authorities (Humane soc, PETA etc.) start demanding that Mexico do something about whats going on overthere just like theyre doing with the whole drug,cartel thing and they start arresting,charging and prosecuting anybody they catch at these events (U.S. citizens included) Then its gonna take a whole lot more than a couple $100 dollar bribe to make it go away! All im sayin is that we on this side need to stop participating in these big events whether here in the U.S. or overthere. The less attention we draw to ourselves the better off well all be. If there is a top notch opponent overthere that is challenging us then let it be at low key private location with only a selected few invited. We need to remain UNDERGROUND if we are going to survive!!

The big dog shows,even the ones as far back as the 50's. Pete Sparks attended many of these shows through the 50's into the late 60's. He was the main writer of these events, promoted and sold Your Friend and Mine magazines.

All of this was great for excellent dog history on this breed, including all the other magazines of yesterday, today, etc. All of this info is also available to the enemies of the sport. With a little studying they then can talk the talk and buy a few dogs. Overtime work their way into the circles of dog persons.

I was told that the Newman's Leather guy was a FBI plant among the dog men of my time era. I spoke to him personally at Chavis' Jocko last weight pulling contest. He really liked the (multi dog show) that day.This agent was really working on a case to apprehend Porter/Jones/Morris, among others. Who I understand was working with a large drug cartel that were bringing dope into our country with air boats. Using our inter coastal water ways from Florida etc.

The main notable dog men of my time, lust's for gate money/prestige of winning a trophy etc. Some even being big time drug dealers. Has pretty well been the main demise of this sport. That still appears to be the same problems today.

I was present when one notable dog man from Georgia read a letter to us. That he was sending to the Governor of Georgia. This letter being signed by him, stated that the Georgia legislative could pass anti dog fighting bills, but it was his right to continue to do so. Needless to say he ended up getting to do some serious time over all that and more.

I was appalled at seeing Pete Sparks and even Baker Davis letting a liberal news person interview them, along with taking pictures/video, of their dog yard. All this and much more is free to look at on the You Tube. One video later shows Baker Davis and Wife in hand cuffs, being hauled off to jail. Not long after that interview with the news person.

Majority of the public know are think they know what a pit bull is by certain type looking dogs. Through bad publicity from the main notable dog men that put on the multi dog shows and the propaganda put out on all our airways. The words Pit Bull brings thoughts of dread and terror in the minds of most of the public today. Sad but true.

Well said, CYJ. Interesting, but sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYJ

The big dog shows,even the ones as far back as the 50's. Pete Sparks attended many of these shows through the 50's into the late 60's. He was the main writer of these events, promoted and sold Your Friend and Mine magazines.

All of this was great for excellent dog history on this breed, including all the other magazines of yesterday, today, etc. All of this info is also available to the enemies of the sport. With a little studying they then can talk the talk and buy a few dogs. Overtime work their way into the circles of dog persons.

I was told that the Newman's Leather guy was a FBI plant among the dog men of my time era. I spoke to him personally at Chavis' Jocko last weight pulling contest. He really liked the (multi dog show) that day.This agent was really working on a case to apprehend Porter/Jones/Morris, among others. Who I understand was working with a large drug cartel that were bringing dope into our country with air boats. Using our inter coastal water ways from Florida etc.

The main notable dog men of my time, lust's for gate money/prestige of winning a trophy etc. Some even being big time drug dealers. Has pretty well been the main demise of this sport. That still appears to be the same problems today.

I was present when one notable dog man from Georgia read a letter to us. That he was sending to the Governor of Georgia. This letter being signed by him, stated that the Georgia legislative could pass anti dog fighting bills, but it was his right to continue to do so. Needless to say he ended up getting to do some serious time over all that and more.

I was appalled at seeing Pete Sparks and even Baker Davis letting a liberal news person interview them, along with taking pictures/video, of their dog yard. All this and much more is free to look at on the You Tube. One video later shows Baker Davis and Wife in hand cuffs, being hauled off to jail. Not long after that interview with the news person.

Majority of the public know are think they know what a pit bull is by certain type looking dogs. Through bad publicity from the main notable dog men that put on the multi dog shows and the propaganda put out on all our airways. The words Pit Bull brings thoughts of dread and terror in the minds of most of the public today. Sad but true.

---

True ,it's like going to the beach and yelling SHARK !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYJ

...excellent dog history on this breed, including all the other magazines of yesterday, today, etc.

All of this info is also available to the enemies of the sport. With a little studying they then can talk the talk and buy a few dogs. Overtime work their way into the circles of dog persons.

The main notable dog men of my time, lust's for gate money/prestige of winning a trophy etc. Some even being big time drug dealers. Has pretty well been the main demise of this sport. That still appears to be the same problems today.

Majority of the public know or think they know what a pit bull is by certain type looking dogs.

The words Pit Bull brings thoughts of dread and terror in the minds of most of the public today. Sad but true.

---

Excellent post CYJ. Those points highlighted above are sadly very true.

While I enjoy the history of these dogs and reading the old magazines, it is used against the breed. And then you have the public who really does not have a clue and all they hear is the brainwashing of the HSUS and the media.

I used to hear comments about my old 50 pound bitch... "she is too small to be a real pit bull! Pit bulls are 80 or 90 pounds..." and I felt she was too big, LOL.

All my dogs have been listed as "terrier mixes" on the vet records as I do not trust BSL and where else will they start to look for "pit bulls" but in vet records and dog licenses.

Sad times these days for the bulldogs... far better the breed was unknown except in certain circles.

And drugs, guns and bulldogs do not mix. The dogs pay the price for the owners' greed and stupidity...

As was already stated the day's of multi card shows are over and anyone who decides to put one on or attend are asking for trouble. I have noticed in the past fews big shows are getting popped because the law is watching some guy for selling drugs and happen upon the dog show or some guy gets popped for drugs and tells on his dog buddies to get out from under said drug charges. Its seems the dog shows are attracting the shit of the world to them, I always believed the shows were for people who showed dog's not everyone in the neighborhood or just bring your buddy because he never been. Years ago I went to big show and wanted to leave the cards had some now famous dog's but it was like a night club with the focus being on gate money. Within a week the whole damn city knew about it because of the wrong people in attendance. As my grandma says common sense ain't so common.

Multi-card shows can still happen, and they will. When I read through this thread, the main word I keep seeing is drugs.

You want to do your best to avoid trouble? Anyone associated with drugs, you cut loose. I did years ago. While I may still be friendly with those people, I don't see them anywhere and rarely do I talk with them unless by happenstance.

If you want to be safe, you have to be safe. Safety first, and if people can't follow those rules, they don't visit.

Safety can be a complicated issue, but it's complication can be removed somewhat by some basic principles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrostyPaws

Multi-card shows can still happen, and they will. When I read through this thread, the main word I keep seeing is drugs.

You want to do your best to avoid trouble? Anyone associated with drugs, you cut loose. I did years ago. While I may still be friendly with those people, I don't see them anywhere and rarely do I talk with them unless by happenstance.

If you want to be safe, you have to be safe. Safety first, and if people can't follow those rules, they don't visit.

Safety can be a complicated issue, but it's complication can be removed somewhat by some basic principles.

---

...and no gate. "Play per view, not pay per view"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apeman

...and no gate. "Play per view, not pay per view"

---

Yes, that also. I forgot to add that in as that's how it has been done in these parts for some years.

No gate.

Participants and dog in one vehicle.

Phones off.

If you don't own dogs, you don't come.

Plenty of things to protect yourself and participants IF you have the stones to enforce YOUR rules.

FrostyPaws :appl:It's that simple!

Only 5 to a side.

Only 5 to a side. Along with What FW said.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of 5 per side as you could have 2 folks there that don't even own dogs, so that was always a no-no for me.

While that wasn't such an issues years ago, it is definitely an issue now.

We need to cull the undesirables among us just like we do with the hounds!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bullyson

We need to cull the undesirables among us just like we do with the hounds!!!

---

When I first got into dogs, and got my first Journal, James Crenshaw was saying the same thing when Ricky Jones rolled over on Ranole Morris, et al.

Nobody listens ...

The bottom line is, the amount of people you can truly trust in these dogs (who don't talk shit, who live a decent lifestyle, who don't have an agenda, and who really are good-natured) is rare to the vanishing point.

MOST of the people involved are either total outlaws, or borderline outlaws, who haven't grown mentally past 17 years of age.

For every 1 legitimately good dude in dogs, you have 99 lifetime thugs, losers, delinquents, etc.

Remember this: if the people you're involved with have that "nothing to lose" mentality, beware :idea:

It is only the people who HAVE a solid education (or, at least, who make a SOLID LIVING, conducting straight-up, legitimate business efforts) that can be trusted.

Those who make their money strictly on illegal ventures can never be trusted, ever. They may be "great guys" when things are going well, but (make no mistake) they will literally "do anything" if it's their ass is on the line.

That is just the way it is.

Jack

Rule 2042:
When rival outlaws are competing for the same money, there is nothing they won't stoop to, to make sure "they" get the money.
There are no rules; there are no "regulations"; there is no code; there is no honor in the illegal marketplace.
It doesn't matter who gets hurt, or what the extent of the collateral damage is, so long as the money gets to the schemer, that is all that matters.


Only people who conduct the majority of their lives doing things legally and properly can be trusted to follow a basic code of conduct.

I absolutely agree with that!

So true !!!

Maybe we can have Chapo have a tunnel dug under the next show site so we can all scadaddle to safety when the Federalies come a knockin lol....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bullyson

Maybe we can have Chapo have a tunnel dug under the next show site so we can all scadaddle to safety when the Federalies come a knockin lol....

---

:rotflmao: :cheers: