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WELL I DID A 14 GEN ON MY GYP PAYDAY MEAN AZZ. I FOUND TUDOR (MAYFIELD) NIGGER ROM, 1125 TIMES EQUALINE 46.808 PERCENT. HOW WOULD ONE LOOK AT THIS COMPARING TO A DIRECT OUTCROSS BREEDING OFF HIM, WHICH WOULD ONLY BE 50% . WHEN I SAY THIS IM MEANING GENES AND TRAITS WISE OF NIGGER HIMSELF THANKS FOR ALL INPUT
I am not sure what you mean by a direct outcross that would be only 50%.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatie
I am also not sure what you mean by "a direct outcross breeding off HIM" ...
Breeding off of whom? Nigger? Nigger's been dead for years.
I also don't know what traits Mayfield's Nigger had as an individual, either.
(CYJ may actually be able to help you there.)
I am trying to make sense of what you said.
Sometimes it's helpful to spend some time actually organizing your thoughts.
I guess the first thing I would ask is, "What traits does the bitch have, herself?"
And then I would ask, "Are these traits she has the traits you're looking for?"
Jack
Hello Wheatie, if you have access to this dog. Is a game dog with traits you like. Try this dog id = 11154, OTRK's DJ. Did you get the Pay Day's Pretty Girl bitch, dog id = 41982 bred? If you are allowed to breed this Pay Day's Pretty Girl again.
I would seriously look at one of the straight bred Vise Grip stud dogs with no out, and if any out, another Carver out in it's pedigree. Would contact the owner of the Pretty Girl bitch. Try to find that other male sibling dog. I understand these dogs are around 8 to 9 years old now. Once again if a good made up game male sibling dog etc. Would do one brother/sister breeding to preserve this old Carver family of dogs.
CA.Jack check out this breeding on this Pay day's Pretty Girl bitch dog id = 41982. There is a picture of her on the on lines pedigree site. Listed as POP Pretty Girl. Would be nice if her picture could be added to her pedigree on here. Typical Carver looking bitch. Knowing how your dogs are bred and the Reuben dog pedigree etc. Sure you can see where I am going with a Vise Grip breeding to this particular Cox/ R. Hyde bred bitch. Just maybe a whole litter of Poncho pups. Unless I missed something in the over all dogs listed in the pedigree. LOL Cheers
P.S. Wheatie double check those pedigrees. I had entered that bitch as Pop's Pretty Girl. All you had to do if you wanted the Pay Day's Pretty Girl. Is just change the registered name and note how it is shown over on the on lines pedigree site in the narrative section. To avoid a duplicate pedigree. Have corrected along with spelling. Be careful Jack will get you, has gotten me before. LOL Cheers
:lol:
If you had a son of nigger bred to a redboy gyp ,that pup would show up as 50 percent nigger dog. Well my gyp shows up as 46.808 percent nigger. Now she not directly off nigger but very close as the precentage show. Just trying to understand your precentage chart comparing to the actual dog ,thats all. Just asking for some understanding without being made an ass. Nigger is dead ,come on. I spent my money on this site so i figure i would use it ,my mistake
I myself am confused as to what you are trying to say? To be honest with you I wouldn't try to breed for Nigger dogs as the dog himself has been dead and gone for years, I could be wrong but that seems like what you are planning to do. It will be a long road trying to breed long dead dogs concentrate on the dogs of today and build with them for a better tomorrow. Again don't understand what you are trying to get across but I wouldn't be worried about how many times Nigger is in your pedigree.
Thanks i got it
Yes cyj,i did breed her to my zilla dog but can bred her again and has consider the poncho breeding or may to something like her
Ditto Wheatie. One other thing that can help is even though your bitch carries a high percentage of the Mayfield's Nigger (Tudor's Nigger etc.) dog, That shows a strong Dibo influence. That is according to the pedigree and who knows what all was done in those fourteen generations. That pretty well goes for about any pedigrees out there today. Including my own,who knows what Mayfield/Carver/ Maloney/ Tudor did or did not do on those breeding's.
Looking at the pedigree and looking at the bitch. I say her genes moved more toward the Carver side of the breeding. Looks more like a Carver type bitch. Now if she was solid black with that long wide mouth Tudor head on her. Could see more of a Tudor's Nigger influence. Does not mean overtime a pup off her might pop up looking just like the old Nigger dog.
I had one called Young/Cox/ Jackson's Mule on various pedigrees. Was a clone look a like of the Tudor's Nigger dog and was a Black and White dog. My Mule dog was bred off Mayfield's Sunshine x Young's Tina. My CH Jackson's (Young's) Coal Cat bitch was a exact clone look alike of Heinzl's Polly in color/size and build. Was off the Jackson's Hank dog x Young's Tina. The gene connection was Heinzl's Polly and sibling sister Coplin's Molly.
The way that whole litter looked, I knew Mayfield was full of it and just jealous over V. J's success with the Hank dog and tried to discredit the very pedigree he himself hand wrote out for V. Jackson on the Hank dog. The only great dog man that I ever knew. That tried to cut off his own nose to spite his own face. Carver never did such but supported the dog men he sold dogs to.
Where you see a lot of line bred and inbred dogs off Bass Tramp Red Boy. They look and are built like him. I know your Zilla dog has some Bullet breeding way back in it's pedigree. But to be a tight bred Bullet dog, would have to be heavy line bred or inbred and look like the Bullet dog.
Here are three dog id's on Bullet bred dogs with pictures. If these id's are not from this site will be from the on lines pedigree site with pictures. Dog id = 956, 892, 1809. They are typical Bullet looking dogs. Seen a few in my younger days.
One of the last living tight bred Bullet dogs died on A. Howel's yard forty years ago. Was formerly owned by Mr. John Shivar was known as Shivar's Sambo. A beautiful built sold black male dog with a small white ball patch in it's chest. Was Eleven or Twelve years old when A. Howle bought him from Mr. Shivar or the last owner who got the dog from Mr. Shivar.
Still best today to deal with the first four generations of dogs that you have had control over. Breed for gaminess/deep breathing lung capacity/athletic type built dogs first. look for the type pulling traits you like best. Will get overtime, the best over all dogs that way. Cheers
Wheatie does the Fight Doctor have any pure stock off those older bred dogs of Mau Mau and the Panama Red breeding's? That would be a good choice if you wish to keep a strong Mayfield influence in the dogs. Cheers
Thanks again CYJ, im going to try an explain the reason for the first question. Yes i do realize that the focus is on the dogs in the first couple of generations and you breed according to what you see and like. But i had never seen 14 GENERATION PEDIGREE before like Jack has on this site.I had went back in peds on the other site but it doesnt give it to you like this site. As matter of fact ,you was the first one who help me realize that it was possible to be done.So i tried it and quess what i got. the sire was 50%and the dam was 50%. Next dog in pedigree was mayfield nigger dog at almost 47%. now the second generation comes in much farther down the list. you have sunshine,jeff,baby,dibo,and other dogs showing up at a higher percentage. Its not that im out to breed any of those dogs but wondering how does this influnence the pups. well finally i got an answer that it does very littleand im fine with that. i was just trying to get the thoughts behind the precentage chart. I truly apoloze for all the confusion, but was just trying to clear it up for me.thanks to everyone for their response. Yes i do have some off the Mau Mau stuff with the panama red stuff in it,which this is a mau mau herself. But i do have the stuff you speak of as well. It come staight from the man himself and have spoken with him a few times.I truly like to talk to the old times and learn from the way yall have done things.I read just about everything that i can of Jack and how he reach his sucess of breeding these animals.And though I have my own thoughts of doing things, I will never overlook guy like yall,cause the proof is in the pudding. Thanks again
CYJ, I also understand exactly what you are saying with the zilla dog as well.And Im not breeding him because of the bullet blood in his pedigree,cause he have other blood as well. I breed this dog because of what he throws and his ROM father threw. I truly believe that some bulldogs will be put on the ground off this dog in the near future.You have to see the animals he put on the ground to truly understand and to know the dog. I figure it wouldnt hurt to research the dog behind him,to find where certain traits come from. In hopes that maybe you can keep these traits going on through many generation. thanks again
Wrong. A son of Nigger is already a 50% Nigger dog, so if you bred him to a Redboy bitch you'd only have a 25% Nigger dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatie
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatie
Okay, that is fine, but you weren't very clear as to what you said. Taking the time to be clear helps the reader understand what you're trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatie
Also, if you're trying to understand what all those percentages mean, you should have clicked on the Wright's Coefficient link directly under all those percentages ... because there is where I took the time to illustrate what it all means ... you just need to take the time to click it and read it ;)
No one is trying to make an ass out of you. I am trying to 1) understand what you're trying to say, and 2) point out your mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatie
If you think you have it all right, then carry on.
If you want to ask questions, that is great, but it's also your job to be clear. It's funny how, when I take the time to clarify what you're trying to say, "you" get irritable.
Buddy, "you" need to take the time to be clear if you expect "me" to be able to respond with precision. Be precise in your questions, if you want me to be precise in my answers.
I was attempting to achieve this kind of precision ... if you are sloppy by nature, then this might frustrate you, but if you seek precision then BE precise.
The truth is, I have already taken the time to answer most of the anticipated questions, under the Wright's Inbreeding Coefficient link (that you didn't click), and there is a recurring theme of people not taking the time to investigate and read what I already have taken the time to provide. No problem, it's a big place here, but slowing down to take a methodical look would do you (and a lot of other people) wonders.
You have actually made several mistakes. From not being clear, to thinking a grandpup of Nigger is a 50% Nigger dog (rather than a 25% Nigger dog), to not being precise with your questions, to missing a link that actually already answers all your questions, there's a boatload you've missed.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatie
But the biggest mistake you're making is having a pissy little attitude about being 1) asked to make yourself clear, and 2) being shown your mistakes. Clarity of thought and expression is everything, and being shown your mistakes is being given the chance to correct them :idea:
If you want to be in an environment where dumb people say dumb things to each other, there are places everywhere where this is the norm. But you'll never achieve clarity in anything like this.
So if you want to achieve clarity of thought, then make sure you first are clear as to your questions and goals.
With that said, if you review my previous response, with an open mind and a closed mouth, you will see it was a sincere desire to point you in the right direction.
Jack
Thanks for all information that was given Jack,and no i really dont think i got it all together. Im eagerly trying to learn and have read the wright coeffiecient link. Im learning things bout this site all the time and tries to use it as an advantage. One of the most important things i have learned,to be clear with my questioning. i dont know any man that feels good about being made to feel like a dumb ass whether its meant that way or not. And for that I truly apoloize and I have learned a lesson.
My personality is hard for many to adjust to, so you're not alone.
I think and write like a robot, lol, except I sometimes really can be a jerk :lol:
In my first post to you, I honestly wasn't doing anything but trying to be precise and clear on what you were hoping to achieve.
With that out of the way, if you can adjust to the way I do things, you won't find anyone in dogs who will take more time to be helpful than I will ... or who will hit the bullseye with greater frequency or precision either :mrgreen:
Have a good one,
Jack
Hey Jack, thanks for your time first of all.and i can adjust to whatever when it benefit me. And wont hesitate to give you a line or two when i need info. Its a great thing that you share with us inexperience dogmen. So no matter how it comes,the truth of the matter is that it came.Sucess comes with bumps and bruises,which could save your ass tomorrow. So great job fellow,and may all your days be blessed. As the great word of CYJ "CHEERS"
I have seen some fantastic Panama Red x Alligator blends.
No quarter ,i have that line as well,and cant wait to breed one of them.If goes well.