Just curious at what some of our "dogman experts" here think about a dog that is fuzzing-up at the base of the tail ... is it a bad sign, a good sign, or does it mean anything at all?
What is the consensus here?
Please vote ... and add any opinions here if you'd like.
Jack
You can't see the results unless you vote :mrgreen:
I've seen it happen when a dog wants to nail something. I've seen it happen half way through work when they start to put the wood to something. I've seen it happen when the dog comes out of a nice warm house on a cold day like it was goose bumps.
When it comes to that kind of thing.... I recognize and acknowledge it like I would with any behavior but I don't judge it until after the fact. Maybe over time it will give me impressions of what is to come (are they starting to draw? Are they pulling up?) but right now I keep it simple and let them show me everything they have and not judge them prematurely based on fuzzing up, tails dropping, tails raising, even turning. Not every bad sign leads to a bad result, but they just may.
Interesting ... thanks for sharing.
I have my own thoughts on the subject, that I will share after enough other people share their thoughts, but so far not a single person thinks it's a "bad sign" yet.
I was taught it was a bad sign; however, my experiences tell me otherwise.
Interested in what others have to say :)
It means something.... No doubt. IMO it could mean so many things though that it's just one of those things that could differ from dog to dog, breeder to breeder, eye to eye. Just something I don't put much weight in with the nucleus of dogs I have.
It has been my observation that it is to show any other dog "I'm bigger and more dominant" than you.
Same as when you see a Rooster puff their neck feathers while holding that head high.
Somewhat agree here. It is a display. How meaningful I really do not know. I had an older fellow tell me once it was a sign the dog was turning on, really wanting it for himself. Sort of like naturally starting vs. having 'starting' thrust upon the dog.
I have seen it in both game dogs and in cur dogs but one thing both have in common is intensity. The dogs that have the knot/raised hair on the tale are usually more intense. EWO
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Originally Posted by S_B
Very interesting observations fellas ... EWO's in particular ...
Still waiting for more votes before I chime in ... also would like other opinions too :)
Theres a condition they call.... Stud Tail. It has to do with a scent gland in both male and female dogs. It is the violet gland and is used for scent marking... Wonder if this has anything to do with it? Territory marking?Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
:rotflmao:
Steely....stop with the Googler!Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDan
:lol:
I could see it mean either way. Some dogs always have that fuzz, some dogs show it when they are being dominant or in a dominant position. If it suddenly pops up with other "symptoms" like whining i'd might be a little worried. Or if it all of a sudden goes away when in a bad spot.
But on the other hand i have seen dogs suddenly rising that fuzz and showing every sign of quitting but still runs over every time. I have learned not to read in on things like this to much, cause as soon as you think you have an understanding of it these dogs prove you wrong.
Even if it meant anything its meaningless to me. I've seen it on 3 month old pups, who didn't want to nail anything once they got in range. Then there's dogs who're outstanding in the pit and don't even look at other dogs when hand walking them. Fuck all that, the only good or bad signs i mind are the ones shown on the racetrack.
When i was first around dogs, the gentlemen hated it from grown dogs, they thought it was signs of a cur. Then as time went by I realized most dogs to them were cur for some reason or another. Cur until proven game, they didn't like dogs who barked or constantly growled. They thought the gamest were the most relaxing dogs who didn't waste energy. Then a friend of mines from the west who also trained dogs, told me that it could mean nothing at all. He said he seen it in his dogs and the dogs of other breeds from sign of aggression, to signs of protection or just excitement. He also mentioned what someone else said about it being a natural transformation into just being ready.. Also about animals fluffin up to become bigger.. Yall got me in suspense I want to know now? Got me looking at the dogs for 4 hours last night with a flash light observing their hairs lol
The way I understand it, it's usually part of the dogs threat display. And means he's going into a defensive mindset, and sees the situation as a serious threat. (fight or flight mode). As we know with these dogs the flight part of the equation is usually not much of an option. Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRed
:lol:
I don't really care for it BUT from what I have had to deal with it is a sign of a unsure animal who needs to make it self feel bigger than what it is facing. So in young bulldogs who have not been started they can display this but once the action starts and they are settling in you will see the hair relax. In dogs doing Schutzhund or French Ring type sports we see it in new dogs on the field for the first time doing bite work. But the same applies to them with them relaxing and enjoying the fight versus the need to feel larger than they are.
Does this make any sense. I will try to find photos or maybe even video to show the difference
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
Okay, here is my take on it.
I am pretty much in agreement with EWO ... it is a sign of intensity ... or a sign that it's on.
To those who posted "it doesn't mean anything," this can't possibly be the right response, because (as Steely Dan said) it surely does mean something.
I bring this subject up, because I have seen some of my dogs do this in the past, and heard "experts" tell me it's "a bad sign" ... even though the dog himself (or herself) seemed geeked-up and totally into the fight to me. I considered what they said, but (because my dogs were kicking ass, and/or had ALL OTHER outward indications of being amped-up) I never put much stock into the "it's a bad sign" idea. To me, it was just a sign the dog was amped, and nothing more.
This opinion has been confirmed in my mind with my bitch Amazon.
As I am reduced to being "just a pet owner" now, I am able to observe my ONE dog more closely ... just really watch all of her habits, mannerisms, and take stock of her as she grows up.
Amazon is coming close to being 3 years old now, and it is clear to me she is "turning on" now, totally naturally, without any artificial "start" (or forced roll), etc. She is plainly and simply GROWING UP ... and as she's growing up, she is starting to "get hot" all on her own ... and I am noticing that the hair at the base of her tail seems to perk-up A LOT now ... when she sees strange animals (especially if they growl, hiss, etc.). She is always PULLING HARD to get at them ... never showing fear, but EAGERNESS.
Because it also fuzzes-up WHEN I FEED HER ... when I GRAB A TOY ... when we PLAY ROUGH ... she gets GEEKED UP ... and there is ZERO FEAR involved in this, ALWAYS HAPPINESS / ALWAYS EXCITEMENT.
I have never seen her hair stand up when I punish her or scold her.
When I am truly mad, her tail drops, her ears drop, and she's scared of me when I am pissed off.
FEAR = NO FUZZ.
ONLY when she is HAPPY, ALERT, and EXCITED does that fuzz stand up on her tail ... to eat, to play, and when she sees a strange animal.
Does it mean she's game? No.
But I am 100% convinced that a dog being fuzzed-up at the base of the tail is NOT a "bad sign," but rather it is a sign that the dog is saying, "IT'S ON!!"
Jack
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Originally Posted by wrknapbt
I don't agree that it's a sign of uncertainty; quite the opposite in fact.
I think it's a sign the dog feels competitive, before the actual conflict happens.
I do agree that it goes away after a bit ... that it is almost always something that occurs in the beginning ... and, once things settle, smooths out.
Interesting.
I don't think it's black or white. Dogs can do this when scared to. Like that moment when a dog decides he had enough. Seen it several times, fuzz comes up dog starts barking and just don't want no more. I do think it's usually a sign of dominance or a fighting mode. But as with most things it can mean other things to. Guess it's a matter of when and why. Jmo based on what I noticed seeing dogs quit.
See that is the thing. With this it could be anything with variances. Like in nature most combat animals do this same thing in different forms. Snakes do it when they stand high to run off something bigger than themselves and chickens do it to look bigger than their adversary.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
But on the same token with bulldogs they are not typical animals. Most times when you see a wagging tail on a dog and there is another dog coming it mean they want to play but not with our dogs. They want to play but with their dead body.
Aye this is a lot of information but great topic of conversation as too many have no idea what they are looking at when it comes to dogs or bulldogs.
Interesting. I can't discount your experience, because they're yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by skipper
Typically, when I see dogs quit, they're very tired, beaten down, and not much is "standing up" on them at all, and especially not their tails.
My own experience has been "tail-up/fuzz-up," when they're still full of energy ...
I would think a dog would have to be quitting awfully early (and awfully rank) to have its tail and fuzz still standing up ...
Good analogy. I am not sure the animals are consciously trying to "look bigger" ... so much as their adrenal system kicks in. Maybe it's simply a function of the adrenal system, which causes the body to react.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrknapbt
I agree, it is good to analyze the signs these animals give. Even among human beings, one of the key challenges is "misperception of facial expressions"; studies show we humans can misperceive each other's signals, let alone the signals of animals.
Those with "gifts" (in dealing with either people or animals) are the ones who can read them right ...
Jack
Come one Jack I'm married and I get in trouble for facial expression all the time. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
On a serious note I get most of my ability from doing decoy work. We as decoys have to be actors who can truly make ourselves feel fearful or fearless based on the needs or the dog we are working that day.
:lol:
Just did an experiment with my young male. He gets real crunk when I grab the shovel for some odd reason. As soon as I grabbed the shovel and stood it in front of him he just went APE and that base of his tail got bushy. As soon as I went save the shovel and he calmed down, his tail went back to normal. It gotta be when they get excited or "so live" as I call it. Lol. Just my $.02.
I voted that it dosent mean anything either way simply for the fact that with everydog it means something different. I have seen it when the dogs just get things going and need a little time to settle down but the majority of the time i have seen it in dog that are starting to quit. I believe i see it more when one dog is about to check out is because of the reason that wrknapbt mentioned. They are trying to scare off or intimidate the other dog.
@cajack the reason the oldtimer said it was a bad sign is because seeing the fuzz was usually followed by a quit.
Possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by gotap_d
The majority of the time I see it is the opposite, when a dog is first getting started and is totally geeked-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by gotap_d
Totally disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by gotap_d
I don't think the dog has any conscious control of it at all, it is something they "just do" ...
I am an old timer now, and I have seen (and bred) more absolutely, truly game dogs than that old timer (and you) put together at this point ... and NONE of the dogs in question ever quit ... it was just something they did in the beginning, when they were amped and pumped.Quote:
Originally Posted by gotap_d
And, again, my house dog does it when I feed her ... or when I grab a toy ... ANYtime she is excited.
For anyone to conclude that she is "about to quit" because of this sign is basically a moron IMO.
Like I said, she is basically saying, "It's on!"
MEAUXTIVATION's experiences echo my own.
You may have different experiences, and seen different things in different dogs, and so I can understand having a different view ... but I know what I am looking at in my own dogs, and don't for one second to presume otherwise.
As a matter of fact, that old timer is the one who wound up counting 10 over his own dog ... after he finished telling me "all he knew" about the signs in my dog :lol:
Jack
I doubt it can be nailed down to any thing that is exact. I agree it varies from dog to dog, and could mean just about anything. The one thing that seems to be consistent is intensity. The dogs that knot and fuzz seem to get jacked (geeked) faster, deeper and maintain the intensity for a longer duration. Does the intensity mean gameness? Not in the least. From my experiences it just seems it is a sign they get real focused and really, really what is out in front of them. Now how long they want what is in front of them after they get it, well, that is a completely different ball game. EWO
When the tail fuzziness it's a bad sign because your hound is under stress whether in keep or show running jot or under pressure
I could be wrong
Pretty sure you are wrong.
Don't see how a dog is "under stress" when it's happy.
Did you even read how my bitch's tail fuzzes up when I get her food?
What "stress" is she under, running around in circles, happy as fuck, uber-excited about eating?
What about when I grab a toy and she does the same thing? She is EXCITED, nothing more.
Regarding the fuzzing issue, I can't possibly fathom how 1) anyone can conceive of this is always a "bad sign" ... nor 2) how in the world it "means nothing."
It may not mean GAMENESS ... but it sure as shit means SOMETHING.
They don't do this relaxed. They do it when they're amped-up, challenged, or excited.
It may simply be a reaction to a shot of adrenaline from the adrenal gland (fight or flight).
In a game dog it means "fight" ... in a cur dog it may mean "no more" ... but it damned sure means SOMETHING ... and that "something" may indeed vary, so there may well be no "one" answer.
To universally say it's a bad sign is simply wrong IMO ... and perhaps so too is it wrong to believe it's always a good sign.
It may simply be the body's response to a shot of adrenaline, over which the dog has no control, and how that dog handles the adrenaline shot may well be up in the air ... and individually dependent.
Jack
I dont think it means one thing one way or the other but based on the voting choices i wouldnt have voted that its ALWAYS bad nor would i have voted that it ALWAYS means the dog is geeked up. Its too much of an opinion/experienced based and an individualized dog situation for anyone to say it means one of those voting choices.
I think it definitely means there is some sort of "adrenaline rush," in all dogs, and how the dog handles it is an individual reaction.
So I can see how people have mixed experiences ... because different dogs get adrenaline rushes based on different reasons ... and each handles it differently.
But I think every dog is "on alert" (in some kind of way) when they fuzz-up like that ...
Jack
do you mean its like in the middle of the tail there is like the hair standing up
Yes, there or at the base of the rump.
all my dogs have it
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60...w/CIMG0347.jpg
if that is what you mean , all mine have it down from Jackie Brown and yes definitely within my line that means a whole lot
during a show that's my main information how there feeling
They've all gotta be curs then, lol, j/k
Yeah, I have seen a lot of my dogs with it too, many of them my best dogs, and never figured it was anything other than an indication they were "amped" about something.
Then I started noticing how my bitch Amazon does that every time she "sees something" now (cat, dog, movement in the bushes, etc.). She is maturing, and clearly "turning on," so much so that even when I grab her food dish, or a toy, she instantly is "on alert" fuzzed-up.
So I thought it would make an interesting topic, because I have heard many people say it's a "bad" sign, and I don't see how, really. At least not with my dogs and my experiences with them.
Interesting about yours too :)
I rarely see any of my dogs down from Frosty ever fuzz up. The one thing they do is just drop their tail about 20 minutes into any activity. It just hangs there, relaxed. Now, there are a couple of dogs here from different breedings that fuzz up at times like has been mentioned here. I've seen them fuzz when excited, and I've seen them fuzz when they get into serious trouble. I've seen some fuzz right before they pack it in. Whether it means anything to one person's chosen dogs or not is based on that person's personal experience. If my dogs from Frosty suddenly started having fuzzy tails, I don't know what that would mean as it's something they simply don't do.
Frosty if that fuzz goes away in a show I am in deep shit LOL