Has anyone here used a swim tank as part of a keep? If so how did you incorporate it into the process? I have a tank that I use for my 13 year old dog and I've been thinking about using it as part of the keep process.
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Has anyone here used a swim tank as part of a keep? If so how did you incorporate it into the process? I have a tank that I use for my 13 year old dog and I've been thinking about using it as part of the keep process.
I had a buddy of mine use basically a swim only keep on a bitch and she looked really good in her show, winning impressively in a little over an hour. This bitch would do nothing. Not walk, not mill, not nothing.
We took a long piece of conduit, attached a snap ring and held her out it a pond. The dog sank like a rock, debated heavily between swimming and drowning, and at that very last minute she chose to swim. Same debate every day.
Once she was swimming he gradually increased. He started off at ten minutes, brought her out, and out her back for ten minutes. He added time to the ten minutes gradually and the number of sets increased in time. By the end of the keep she was doing 20 minute sets, pulled from the water, recovery time and then back in the water. By the end of the keep she was doing about 2 hours per work day.
Every dog is different. I am just about positive you will have to experiment with times and sets and then dial it in for each dog. I have always wanted to try one but never had a tank to give it a try. Best of luck. EWO
Some people may not agree but if this dog done so well in a show and was only swimming during the keep. Something or someone got lucky along the way. Either the dog was great or the hog was shit. I'm sorry but swimming isn't a great way to work a dog. It simply doesn't put the dog in the condition it needs to be in for that type of activity. Time and time again I have seen swimming worked into keeps but never seen it end well. Maybe it's just the ones I have seen. But if it's got to be part of the keep maybe a light day work out or warm up. Jmo
I was thinking more of cool down since the hand walking will be used to warm up and empty out.Quote:
Originally Posted by widerange
Yeah I didn't think about that. A cool down would be best
She was in really good shape. Maybe she had some natural air that helped. She was a good dog but not a great dog. She went just about an hour the first time and 1:45 the second time. The first one she stopped, wanted to continue but could not. The second quit by being outlasted with more will and more work. Both times being worked in the water.
Granted, I am no swim keep advocate as I have never did one in a tank or in a controlled environment such as a tank. I have seen four personally. This bitch won two and she was in great shape. Ch. Caballo ( Garner's Dynomite) won three and his hardest days were in a deep creek swimming in the current.
Swimming may not be a great way to work a dog but is can be an effective way to work a dog. EWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by widerange
swimming is a great tool when used with a flirt pole
I've never seen a dog swam in a keep, though I do know of a man that did it once for a female much like EWO describes.
Widerange, just out of curiousity, how come swimming does NOT put the dog in the condition to win? Is it because the thought process of being in the water and being cooled down? Swimming isn't exactly something easily done for 2 hours, if not more, if done correctly. So while I've never done it, I certainly wouldn't discredit it without every trying it.
I can't say why it doesn't work only what I believe. Now this is a theory of mine so I'll try to explain the best I can. When a dog is in keep your training that dogs body for whatever is at the end of that keep. So if your train the dog to be under large amounts of pressure and stress. Swimming doesn't apply this type of work into a dog during it's keep. So yes 2hrs of swimming is hard. But let's take the amount of force( work) that it takes to swim for 2hrs,while it is hard, the dog only works a small amount for x amount of time to keep it's head above work while swimming. But in a show from the start force is applied on the dogs body in heavy amounts for x amount of time often shorter then 2hrs so the dog simply isn't worked for the show. Take strong man weightlifters, they lift a heavy weight for a short time. Do you think they walk into a gym and work out with small amounts of weights for longer reps? Or do they do heavy weights with few reps?
As from what I have done it works now that was never a 100%swim keep but it did consist of more swim days! Now as far as heavy weight lifters they lift more weight but less reps body building techniques less weight more reps! Reason being is you have a fast twitch and slow twitch muscle! I am a big believer in hitting every muscle on the hound most important part of swim is the fact that it works both fast/slow twitch muscle and it incorporates a more important muscle and that is stabilizing muscle's,these muscle keeps the hound from rolling to its left or right while swimming and keeping themselves upright! Now what I did to add power was bring them to a shallow water with a flirt and have them run thru the water don't know if any of you have ever tried to run thru water but the resistance force is incredible! As for the swim I like to use it for STRESS RECOVERY,and LAZY HOUNDS
Widerange, I would say what you describe is hypothesis as it's something you've never done.
Widerange, what if you swam the dog up and down a river for 2 hours, and you did it for longer sets of time. What if you were able to ultimately swim the dog for 2 hours straight? If you limit yourself from trying anything, you stay trapped within your own man-made box of ideas. Now, I'm not saying you could swim a dog for 2 hours straight, because as I've said, I've never utilized the swimming in a keep. BUT, if you were, I'd say that's a pretty tough thing to do, and while you dog may not be in 100% shape, hell, what dog ever is?
Interesting idea :-?Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
Please explain the 'force'? I am not sure what that means. EWO
Check the innovative conditioning thread....
I though I covered the fact that it was just my own thought on swimming without you saying anything at all. But once age yes I haven't used swimming in a keep although I yardboy under a kennel for awhile that worked dogs at swimming more during a keep and this is what I seen with his dogs. A few other people I know have used it in different ways from lakes to homemade boxes and although the dogs,Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyPaws
owners,keeps,ect. Changed it seemed to always pan out the same way. So yes I haven't done it cause I seen it used from the start of my involvement in dogs and to me it doesn't work as well as it should or other types of work would have done better. Again swimming 2hrs is hard work no doubt about it but to me for that dog to swim 2hrs straight you are conditioning it for something it's not going to do in a hunt. Most shows don't last 2hrs (Cali jack your percentages on times would be useful here or the added search to peds. we talked abou) & and if a hunt does go 2hrs a dog in a swim keep was trained at a slower/lower level of work for 2hrs it simply won't hold up to what is being asked of it during a hunt. Swimming a dog 2 hrs straights to me is like asking a spirit runner to train in cross county then compete in a 200m dash. Your doing the work and it's impressive but that doesn't make it right for the show. Give me a flirt pole and a incline landscape over swimming anyday
We killed 2 birds with 1 stone. I was just trying to get you to tell me why you thought such, and since you explained it, I understand now.
Some people claim to have done well with swimming tho and they may have but I have never seen it work myself. Hope I helped in some way
Force can be a wide range of things!Force is the interaction between two objects.Force is to make a way through or into by physical strength, breaking open by force.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
A FORCE is a push or pull upon an object resulting from the objects interaction with another object. Whenever there is an interaction between two objects there is a force upon each of the objects. When the interaction ceases the two objects no longer experience the FORCE. FORCE can only exist as a result of an interaction.
To get deep into force would be to have a understanding of physics and the wide range of FORCE! Gravitational pull,contact force,Action at a distance force are just a few type's. Knowing this would then bring us to the Newton of FORCE in which we could measure the quantity of FORCE.That brings us to the state of FORCE, Newton first law of motion tells us that an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion. There for when you have the hound weight pulling that's a type of FORCE, running is a type of FORCE! Now as I stated if you bring them to a shallow part of a watering hole and have the chase the flirt pole the interaction between the two objects (Dog&water) is were FORCE would come into play! This is why the free spinning keep builds a much leaner hound with great wind . In a free spinning keep its less force on the hounds as they don't have to pull or push anything as they are more so just keeping up with a machine or bike! Swimming is also a form of free spinning keep as its not as much FORCE placed on them.
^^^ nice post. In my post I used the word force to cover any activity that you maybe training for and your post explained that to the T
Can't wait till weather breaks!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
Love this type of training with younger dawg their bodies respond to this low force training something incredible !!
But wouldn’t you need to warm the water to the hounds temp
That type work if used for a extended time like EWO told us about. IMHO Probably best done in a summer time keep. For as not producing a dog in shape.
One of my grandsons did competitive swimming type training. Competed in a lot of swimming events. Till he later started playing High School football. Most of his fellow foot ball players trying to get back in shape. Would fall out, upchucking their lunch from the summer camp training. He would just laugh at them.
He could handle all the psychical training that was put before him to do. Had developed powerful lungs and long lasting muscle endurance over the years from the swimming. Cheers