Dog sales in Foreign Countries

I have been talking to a man from Australia that wanted to buy Twista. He said he was going to send me $1000 dollars through Western Union. I told him I do not sell to people in foreign countries. He wrote and said their would be no problem that he would send a groundshipper buy to pick him up and more or less said I'd be out of the picture. I told him Ok I can do that. The day he sent the money to Western Union for me. He said could I get a health certificate calling him and Stephen Curr. I said my vet knows my dogs and I can't do that. He ask If I knew a Vet that could get a health certificte saying he was a Stephens Curr. I said no I will not do that. His conversation begin to bother me and I called my Attorney and ask some questions and she ask me some questions. She said that could be someone trying to get you and setting you up for trying to get a breed of dog in a country that doesn't allow that breed. So I wrote him and told him to get his money back from Western Union that I had decided not to go to Western Union and get the money and leave me alone. I told him not to write me or call me again. He was mad and wrote me some insulting letters and called to. I was sorry I had ever let him talk me into anything. He said I have already spend $1000 dollars and hollared about that. I hope and believe they will let him have hs money back. Anyway am I wrong for backing out on this? I like my freedom and have never been arrested for any felonies. I am cautious and trust very few people. I hope I did the right thing. Randy Fox

Nope not wrong at all. The problem with a sale like this is you don't know the person or anyone who does know him. He could be trying to do something shady to you or someone else. If he has a ground shipper then his shipper should take care of all of that and if I'm not mistaken (I maybe) I think the breed is banned in that country. I will check the BSL list and find out for sure. I myself will not sell a dog to anyone. I have placed dogs with folks but they will never be able to say I sold them a dud or anything like that. My deals go like this. Oh you like this knuckle head dog? Take him/her home and try them out and let me know if it's worth the food it eats. If not cull it.

I would have backed out to. Its a favor, and favor have to be earned or payed for.

The problem is none of that was discussed up front. Australia doesn't allow APBTs to be imported into the country. He should've made that clear to you from the get go.

My Attorney said and I quote. Can you imagine what could happen to you aiding a man who is trying to get a dog in his country illegally. Anyway it isn't going to happen. I hope he can get his money back. Surely he can.

It's as simple as this: if someone digs in his pocket, and puts his money out there for you to take, you are NOT required to accept it.

And even if you do accept it, you are perfectly within your rights to hand it back.

I also know for a fact the sender can get ALL his money back from Western Union if it's not been claimed yet by the sendee.

Jack

PS: And even if you took the money from Western Union, you're still within your rights to send it back, LESS your charges for sending it.
EG: If you get $1,000 for the dog, and it costs you $15 to send it back, then the man gets $985.
.... You do NOT have to pay anything extra for his failing to tell you it's illegal for him to get a dog.
.... You're not required to know the laws of every country in the world; HE'S required to tell you the laws of his country.

It looks simple to me, he required more than agreed after the original deal, so it is your right to decline.

The man or woman in question from Australia ask me to take this off here and scolded me for putting this on here. He emailed me and ask me to remove this. I did not mention his or her call name or his or her name. I am going to stay with what my gut tells me. I feel if I had moved forward doing this transaction I may have got in trouble. As you all know I am an open book. Anyone who jumps all over me for my decisions will gain nothing by doing so. I can go back and copy all his emails and put them on here but I wont. This is a warning to everyone. Stay away from this type sales and these type people if you can. Randy Fox

Why would you mention you could copy & paste all his emails on here? No need for that, you came on the board told the story got responses all after you contacted your attorney. It's obvious the guy liked the way the dog was bred and needed the dog shipped to his country with a Health Cert for Stephen's Curr on it. Nothing new about it, hell many folks do the same thing. You decided to turn him down and let him take his money back without burning him. You did your part, now you can send him on his way. Reason he asked you to take it down or scolded you was because maybe you weren't the only person he inquired about a dog that is up for sale. So with likely more than 1 person contacted and he the common man of being from Australia it's not hard to start pin pointing people. I think after you told me you called your attorney I would of just said send the money back anyways, not trying to be attached to nothing illegal just like you aren't

I agree with this Crazy Red, and I would never "call my attorney" on a dog deal either :-O =; :censored:

And hell, for that matter, I never need anyone's (or a board's) "approval" of my actions :rolleyes:

Basically, it is the mantra of every business, every store, as well as every individual: We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone ...

Jack

Perfectly said Jack, something a lot more folks need to remember when conducting business. "Reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

Why would you mention you could copy & paste all his emails on here? No need for that, you came on the board told the story got responses all after you contacted your attorney. It's obvious the guy liked the way the dog was bred and needed the dog shipped to his country with a Health Cert for Stephen's Curr on it. Nothing new about it, hell many folks do the same thing. You decided to turn him down and let him take his money back without burning him. You did your part, now you can send him on his way. Reason he asked you to take it down or scolded you was because maybe you weren't the only person he inquired about a dog that is up for sale. So with likely more than 1 person contacted and he the common man of being from Australia it's not hard to start pin pointing people. I think after you told me you called your attorney I would of just said send the money back anyways, not trying to be attached to nothing illegal just like you aren't

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Exactly!!!

Randy you should start conducting yourself like a grown man,and handle your dealings with people in private...instead of coming to an open forum and discussing this...and posting private emails between you and the potential customer is a big no no!...

if you don't want to deal with him then thats fine..but show some dignity and let it be...you will gain more respect that way...

I believe you did the right thing also. I think he's just up set that you changed your mind.

Thanks Loot and the guys that do agree with me. I almost got talked into something and glad I backed out. For everyone's information my attorney is my first cousin. I ask her lots of stuff when I talk to her. She never has told me wrong. She ask me Plumbing advice and ask lots of advice on other matters. I've always done things my way and have been a successful Master Plumber. I also was successful with the dogs back in the day. I matched into some of the best and beat them. I had critics back them but I shut their mouth with my dogs. My family loves me and treats me like a king and I've never been arrested. I'm 70 years old and have been through lots of things that all you young guys will still have to face. I read an article where one of the reasons they got to take certain satelite and air photos of Floyd Boudreaux' place was. They said that selling dogs in foreign countries put him in a bracket like a terrorist. That gave them the right to spy on him. I think that is nonsense and a twist and turn of the judicial system. If anyone thinks they are going to change me and my methods. Think again. Notice I will sign my name to what I write. Randy Fox

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Originally Posted by Foxman

Thanks Loot and the guys that do agree with me. I almost got talked into something and glad I backed out. For everyone's information my attorney is my first cousin. I ask her lots of stuff when I talk to her. She never has told me wrong. She ask me Plumbing advice and ask lots of advice on other matters. I've always done things my way and have been a successful Master Plumber.

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Randy, you can do what you want, but when you tell dogmen "I contacted my attorney," it sets a red flag up for most folks.
No one had any way to know your cousin was your attorney, so you not including that piece of information was basically ASKING FOR some "raised eyebrows" ...

It probably would have been wiser, and less of a red flag, to say, "I contacted my cousin, who's an attorney," and I don't think anyone would blame you for that.

Now I don't know what you being a plummer has anything to do with, but doing things "your own way" is something pretty much everyone does. I know I do :)

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Originally Posted by Foxman

I also was successful with the dogs back in the day. I matched into some of the best and beat them. I had critics back them but I shut their mouth with my dogs. My family loves me and treats me like a king and I've never been arrested. I'm 70 years old and have been through lots of things that all you young guys will still have to face. I read an article where one of the reasons they got to take certain satelite and air photos of Floyd Boudreaux' place was. They said that selling dogs in foreign countries put him in a bracket like a terrorist. That gave them the right to spy on him. I think that is nonsense and a twist and turn of the judicial system. If anyone thinks they are going to change me and my methods. Think again. Notice I will sign my name to what I write. Randy Fox

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That is interesting about selling dogs to other countries putting people in a position to be spied-upon.

So does giving out your address and letting people know where you live, which is why I pretty much stopped doing that in the early 2000s. (Also a good way to get dogs stolen.)

As far as "changing you," no one is actively trying to change you or your methods ... in fact I don't think anyone really cares about your transactions.
But when you PUT "you and your methods" up here to be scrutinized, then you're basically ASKING for some criticism, are you not?

If no one is ever going to change you, and if you would NEVER accept the idea that you could possibly be wrong, then why even ask anyone what they think?

Just do what you do, in silence.

Jack

PS: That said, I still would have done the same thing you did, NOT go through with the deal;
I personally just wouldn't have aired the whole thing out in public ... unless I was attacked first in public.

Jack would never call an attorney because he IS one :) That's a big plus when it comes to legal matters, but you dont have to be one to know the law. That was a raw deal the minute he changed his mind about the shipping. Ireland has no restrictions, England does. Each Country has their own bullshit procedures. Just go to the Usda website and click on your country of interests, and the list of bullshit you have to do is on there along with the restrictions.

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Originally Posted by evolutionkennels

Jack would never call an attorney because he IS one :) That's a big plus when it comes to legal matters, but you dont have to be one to know the law. That was a raw deal the minute he changed his mind about the shipping. Ireland has no restrictions, England does. Each Country has their own bullshit procedures. Just go to the Usda website and click on your country of interests, and the list of bullshit you have to do is on there along with the restrictions.

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LMAO, no I am not, good sir ... but I do deal with them on a daily basis.

I am a Senior Casualty Claims Investigator, not attorney 8)

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

LMAO, no I am not, good sir ... but I do deal with them on a daily basis.

I am a Senior Casualty Claims Investigator, not attorney 8)

Cheers.

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Jajajaja, Jack deals with Assholes on a daily basis... So when some asshole rears his head on a message board... It's a no contest. Look up the verb Calijacked on urban dictionary. It means to get game of throned on a message board.

:lol: :rotflmao:

Pretty much :dancin:

Floyd being spied upon had to do with X amount of money being sent by WU from the Middle East. After 9/11, there are a lot of things being watched more closely when it comes to those type things. So no, selling a dog to a foreign country doesn't put you in any terrorist bracket. Whoever told you that, or wherever you read it, is full of shit.

I barely care about laws in this country, let alone a foreign country. Stephens cur it is :-bd

:appl::appl:

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Originally Posted by Black Hand

I barely care about laws in this country, let alone a foreign country. Stephens cur it is :-bd

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..lol...

Thanks Fox I got something from your post its nice to jump on a forum an see a new post :-bd and not read the same ones for weeks (:|. But it sad that critics have to come on and down play your experience. The man didn't mention anybody's name he was just enlightening in a indirect.

Ps. Jack can you tell me how is it a red flag that he contact his attorney? I can understand if he said he contact his local authority all he wanted was some info maybe he wanted to know about certain stipulation and laws in this situation, and being that he did, look he possible save himself from any issues. Man I wish you guys would have the same amount of understanding when someone posts something that you do when your breeding and keeping curs...:pirate:

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Originally Posted by Acesaun

Thanks Fox I got something from your post its nice to jump on a forum an see a new post :-bd and not read the same ones for weeks (:|.

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Here's a thought, genius: if you don't like any of the "old topics," instead of waiting around for "someone else" to post something you're interested in, did you realize you can start your own "new" topic, on the subject that most interests you :idea:

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Originally Posted by Acesaun

But it sad that critics have to come on and down play your experience. The man didn't mention anybody's name he was just enlightening in a indirect.

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What does "in a indirect" mean?

And no one is downplaying his experience. You need to wake up and smell the coffee Ace :coffee:

When somebody DIRECTLY ASKS to be criticized, to have people TELL HIM THEIR OPINION if "what he did" was RIGHT ... they set themselves up to BE criticized :idea:

He basically asked, "Did I do the right thing?", and he got some answers. I guess he just wanted "universal praise," but that's not how things always work out.

Because MOST dogmen don't think it's all that cool 1) to be calling attorneys on each other, 2) to be calling cops on each other, and 3) to be airing each other's business in public.

These are the FACTS OF LIFE being a dogman.

And now that he's clarified that his "attorney" is really his cousin, most people AGREE he did the right thing.

So "what is sad" is your boo-hooing some pretty simple stuff.

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Originally Posted by Acesaun

Ps. Jack can you tell me how is it a red flag that he contact his attorney?

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I just did tell you.

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Originally Posted by Acesaun

I can understand if he said he contact his local authority all he wanted was some info maybe he wanted to know about certain stipulation and laws in this situation, and being that he did, look he possible save himself from any issues.

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It's not that dramatic. He didn't pick up a thousand dollars. Big deal. There is nothing to "call a lawyer" over.

The Australian guy has no rights, no power, no jurisdiction over anyone "not picking up" money he sent.

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Originally Posted by Acesaun

Man I wish you guys would have the same amount of understanding when someone posts something that you do when your breeding and keeping curs...:pirate:

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What are you talking about?

Do you have anything intelligent to say about the subject, or any other subject, or are you just popping off with random insults because someone pissed in your Wheaties this morning?

Jack

@jack..lol...well put!!

Randy,just seems to be making a big deal about nothing! He has the right to refuse sale..and thats what he did...END OF STORY!! Dont know why he felt the need to make it public..

I think its a bit of a punk move to now air out your business dealings with a potential customer,on an open forum like this...
randy...you are a grown man,I dont think you need to be asking the board whether or not you made the right decision,to not sell one of your dogs!

If the man or woman in question hadn't went nuts at me on the computor email and phone. It the rude rant at me hadn't taken place. I would not have said a word. I ask the person in question to quit writing emails and calling me on the phone and it continued over and over and over. Calling me rude things that I do not like. Some how I came to the conclusion that he or she found my ad on this web. This person in question has let me know that I was right. The way this person let me know. He or She continues posting as part of this debate. Jack you can delete this if you think you it would be better for this web. I believe the party in question will leave me alone now. Sorry readers but I did not know how to make this person leave me alone. It is up to you Jack. I'm done. Randy Fox