Just want to get peoples thoughts of the use of a carpet mill during a keep? Do many on here use one and in what capacity? What benefits/downfalls do you see in the use of the carpet mill??
I'm interested to see people's thoughts on the subject.
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Just want to get peoples thoughts of the use of a carpet mill during a keep? Do many on here use one and in what capacity? What benefits/downfalls do you see in the use of the carpet mill??
I'm interested to see people's thoughts on the subject.
Big fan of the carpet mill. Actually most carpet mills out there today are more of a belt mill than a carpet mill. The older type carpet mills were shag type carpets with a heavy jute backing sliding across a sanded plywood surface. A lot of the end rollers were just PVC pipe for the carpet to slide over not necessarily roll over. Lots of resistance. They served, and can serve there purpose.
The carpet mills of today are using belts or lighter carpets with some sort of polymer/plastic sliding surface with end roller set ups. They provide a good resistance but allow the dog to open up and run top end. The dog can sprint under load. For me, that is a great tool to have in that proverbial 'tool shed'.
Benefits and downfalls are just like any other piece of equipment. Used correctly it is the best thing out there. Used incorrectly and the dog is left stale or even injured. Pretty much like anything else we "teach/allow/encourage" the dogs to do. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.
Personally, I prefer sprint work on mine. The sprints can go from 15 to 20 seconds to as much as a minute. I stop him, pause and let him go again. I am using the mill for the explosions that come from start-stop-start training. I use the mill from three to five times per week. EWO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq7h6nQmKoM
This is a carpet mill I built some years ago. The video looks like my camera guy (12 year old son) was running with her.
She opens up and can go all out, but each step is still driving the mill. I like it a lot.
I just built a slat mill as well. Like you, I think I will make another stab at it in the coming months. I used skate wheels instead of roller wheels and the wider running surface provided more drag than I anticipated. The material I used to bolt the slats to is a bit flimsier than I would have liked, or more flimsy that I expected. It was a neat project. I will try to get a video posted the next day my son and I are off at the same time. EWO
Anaerobic vs aerobic...I love my Colby carpet mill. Good to built muscle, burn fat, and cardio in short intervals. I built my dogs up to run 10 mins everyday just to keep them fit. Colby wrote a 28day keep with just a carpet mill. Pretty interesting. Carpet mills def has it's benefits.
I am looking to add an basic gambler mill (self assembled) just to get the longer aerobic exercise and lung capacity. Both have their benefits and you can supplement exercises if you have one or the other.
Regardless of what you have the dogs love it!!
I also only use the carpet mill in short intervals, I've seen dogs go week on the back end from excessive use of the carpet mill. I definitely think it's a harder tool to master than the slat mill.
EWO I've found with the slat mill the key to a good one is two things, tour choice of corner wheel's and the belt itself, the belt for me was the hardest part to master, getting the length right and trying to get as light a timber as possible while still maintaining strength in the slat is a tough thing to master.
The belt is something I missed on. I went with some tow strap/binder material and it was flimsier than I thought it would be. The mill turns OK, works well just not quite as free as I thought it would turn out. I plan to change the belt material and change the wheels. The main wheels work really well, they are referred to as 100mph kart wheels, really free turning. I like those.
The carpet mill is no different than any other mill or piece of equipment. Used incorrectly, or over used, will lead to problems. I have seen dogs over worked on both. I always thought it was easier to read the dog on the carpet mill than the slat mill. That may be because I started off learning on a carpet mill in the very early 80's. It was a hard turning mill that really worked the dogs. He had a slat mill that he used sparingly so the majority of my first experiences was with the carpet mill. Kinda never got away from it. EWO
EWO whats the longest time a dog can safely run the mill once he/or she as been accustom to carpetmill ?
I never leave one on longer than 3 minutes at a time.
I believe time depends on how free spinning your mill is. Also what shape the dog is in when you get started. As the dog gets in better shape the longer you can keep it on the mill. I try to get from 3-5 min. At a time as max ,also depends on the dog willingness. Each dog is different.
No right or wrong answer. It depends first on the dog. The better conditioned the longer he can stay, regardless of the mill. Secondly, it depends on the mill. The free-er it turns, the smoother it turns the longer a conditioned dog can stay. One is somewhat dependent on the other.
In the video I posted, on a mill that turns like that I get about 10-15 minutes per session, granted my session may last an hour, on and off, on and off. In straight all out runs anywhere from less than a minutes to as much as three to five. Depends on the dog and where we are at in his progress.
With the carpet mill I see more advantages to stopping and starting to an all out sprint, stopping and starting to an all out sprint. I am more concerned with how long it takes him to recover than how long he actually ran the mill. Granted his run times will increase in time but the recovery times speak louder to me. If that makes sense.
Not to be short with an answer, but there is no 'time' a dog can safely do anything without knowing the dog and the equipment being used. My minute may be your ten minutes or vice versa. Not knowing your dogs or your equipment I can't say 'X' amount of minutes is safe and 'XXX' amount is not. EWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolioman
Perfect example of what your saying EWO, the bitch on the left is running the carpet mill, bitch on the right is on the slat mill. The one on the left puts a hell of a lot more into a workout than the one on the right, therefor the time she's left on the carpet mill should be less than the one on the right give that both bitches are in the same psychical shape obviously.
The bitch behind me was cooking the breakfast and going crazy that I had two dogs running mills in her kitchen on a Sunday morning lol.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2ixCHEgjlWE
Great example of two dogs on two different mills simultaneously. The dog on the left is working harder than the dog on the right. All things even the dog on the right should spin the mill for a longer period of time. The mill on the right is free-er turning and the dog is doing less work. Granted the dog on the right is taking maybe two or three times the number of strides in the same period of time but each stride is less of a load than the dog on the left.
This same scenario would work with two dogs using the same mill. One may be able to go longer than the other based on its individual condition/conditioning. The safety/health issue would be making the lesser of the two run the same amount of time as the other more prepared hound.
Another difference in the carpet mill in the video is the end roller set ups. Those really free up a carpet mill. Lots of older mills had a stationery piece of PVC/plastic pipe and the carpet just slid around it and every step was driving more than the dogs bodyweight (his weight coupled with the resistance of the carpet/surface/rollers). Lots of carpet mill myths evolved from these mills.
1. Carpet mills damage a dog's kidneys. A dog who was not emptied, not prepared and hung on one of these mills more than likely did do damage to his body. But like most, we can't blame ourselves, it has to be the mill.
2. A dog can't be on a carpet mill more than five minutes. True, if the mill turns extremely hard, and the dog is using maximum effort over long periods of time, then yep, five minutes is an eternity. Put that same dog on a carpet/belt mill like the one in the video and he can be on there for a lot longer than five minutes with no ill effects.
3. Carpet mills are for strength and slat mills are for endurance. Depends on how they are used. Start, sprint and stop. There will be gradual increases in sprint lengths and gradual decreases in recovery times. Again, the anaerobic vs. aerobic argument is dependent upon the free-ness of the mill. Not the name of the mill carpet vs. slat.
Too many variables to place a blanket label on either of the mills.
Nice video. And two dogs running mills in the kitchen at my house would most definitely lead to some one being game checked. I might cur under that 12" cast iron skillet. Great posts. Nice mills. EWO
Some great information there EWO, just the kind of things I was hoping to bring up and get peoples thoughts and theory's on.
I still have the carpet mill in the video and use it regularly conditioning my dogs, the dog trotter I ended up selling, I only kept it for a month and found it to be more of a temperamental pretty looking ornament than the kind of rugged tool you use day in day out working your dogs. I replaced it with a killer spinner which seems to be a bit more durable even if it did take a year to have delivered lol.
We have an older Gambler mill as well, back when it was G-Force, before the DogTrotter. It is a pretty good piece of equipment. I do not use that much but it does serve a purpose. My buddy likes it more than I do. I have not used any of the newer Dog Trotters. I have heard both good and bad. I have only read about the Killer Spinners No real knowledge with those.
I like the carpet mill in your video. It turns really nice. Start/stop sprint work would work beautifully on that piece of equipment. EWO
The carpet mill In the video is from rp mills in the Philippines as well, the killer spinner isn't a bad mill, it seems to be durable which is great for running dogs every day, what I didn't like about the dog trotter was that if the belt wasn't oiled weekly it would constantly run off it's tracks and jamb, the second thing is that once it was spinning it span well but the dog had to dig deep to get it going which I didn't like for a couple of reasons, one being it wasn't ideal for young dogs getting started. We use an old chandler mill for the keep, it's old but the best mill I've seen. you can see from this vid how they have to dig in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2EUeXCfVSk
Agreed. I think a lot of mill makers have went over board in regards to having the free-est turning mill. The hand test has always puzzled me as far as value to the dog. I admit it looks cool but I can't equate it to the dog.
I do not see the value in a dog trying to catch the mill. Pretty much like the video above. I like free and smooth as much as the next guy but I want the dog to do the work, not the dog coupled with gravity and momentum. I do not knock on the slat mill as I have seen some fine mills and some beautifully conditioned dogs coming off of them. It may be because I have more carpet mill experience but I find it more difficult to read the dog on a really free turning slat mill. It could be some personal bias as well.
With that said, I prefer a dog giving his all with all four feet on the ground. If I can choose between sprinting on a mill and sprinting on the ground, I choose the ground 100% of the time. I'm a big fan of sprint type work. The ground, the carpet mill and then the slat mill. In that order. EWO
GREAT THREAD FOLKS! EWO, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BUT DOES IT SEEM LIKE THE BRAKE IS A BIT TO TITE ON THE TROTTER ? JUST LISTENING TO THE WAY IT STARTED.
I'VE CHANGED THE WAY I DO MY CARPET MILLS ALSO. AND TO BE HONEST I LIKE THEM BETTER THAN MY SLAT MILLS. BUT I STILL USE MY OLD CURLEY MILL! LOVE THAT THING. ACCORDING TO THE NUMBERS THAT I HAVE ON IT IT WAS BUILT IN 78/79. HAVENT BEEN ABLE TO VERIFY THAT JUST GOING OFF WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY SOME THAT KNEW THEM FOLKS. BUT EITHER WAY, IT STILL WORKS GREAT. I'VE TREATED IT WITH A GOOD BIT OF TLC. GET ALOT OF FUNNY LOOKS WHEN FOLKS COME TO PICK ONE UP AND SEE IT SETTING THERE. BUT IT GETS USED ALMOST EACH DAY.
BUT THE CARPET MILL FOR SHORT QUICK SPRINTS YOU CANNOT BEAT.
I REALLY LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK SIR. THESE FREE SPINNING SLATS AINT WHAT THEY CRACKED UP TO BE. ONCE THE DOG GETS IT SCREAMING SEEMS THE DOG IS JUST HOPPING AND SKIPPING ALONG. I PREFER FOR MINE TO GO AT A GOOD STEADY PACE SORTA LIKE THE WAY A BOXER WOULD DO HIS ROAD WORK.
I BET YOU WOULD LOVE THE ZIP LINE I HAVE GOING UP A SMALL HILL . I HANG A HIDE FROM A CABLE AND LET THE DOG GET ON IT FOR A BIT. THEN PULL THE ROPE TAKING THE HIDE UP THE HILL ABOUT 30 YARDS. THEN LET THE DOG GO. UP THE HILL TO THE HIDE THEN PULL THE HIDE AND THE DOG BACK DOWN. REAL GOOD SPRINT WORK! SORRY FOR THE DERAIL FOLKS. REAL GOOD THREAD AND SOME KNOWLEDGE TO BOOT!
The brake on the dog trotter was totally loose, I never really used the brake feature on it, I probably didn't own it long enough to get the hang of it but to be honest it was far too temperaments for me, I need something that I can keep in the man cave and abuse day in day out, that was one of the top of the range models, the deluxe pro I think, just wasn't for me, that's not to say that the next man doesn't cherish it.
I do the zip line as well. My cable is about 85 yards or so. It was a 5/16 300' braided steel cable used to hoist totes to the 4th floor where I work. About 20' in the cable frayed and was replaced. I scooped it out of the dumpster. I use it whenever the weather permits. Nothing like working on the ground. EWO
Have a Colby carpet,red river and a killer spinner, they each have there place! For me I like chain pulls /sprints over the carpet,my bike over the killer spinner and hill climbing / sprints over the red river! Don't get me wrong I use all three but if given the chance to get wind in my face and dirt under my feet I'm gone see ya in about two-three hour's! :-) plus I can feel if my buddy is not fully recovered from the workouts from yesterday. Do llike them during clean up place one on each mills and get those three spots fresh and clean while they burn off some steam!
I'm building a carpetmill at the momen, will post some pictures when it's done.
would love to see your work! Some of the best ones were the ones buddy's built them self!Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky
http://i.imgur.com/1QSD75e.jpg
Will post more pics and video when its done.
Looking nice so far! Whats under the belt to keep it smooth?
It's a laminated board, found it the hardware/carpenter store. I think it is used as a store shelf really.
Very sharp looking, how did you get the belt to come together? We used good old fishing line!
Thnx, ragedog! Hopefully I will finish it this weekend and let a dog try it out!
I used some sort of glue to the carpet, clued both sides and had some pressure on it for 24h.. It got strong as hell, I tried standing on the carpet and pull but there was no way I can tear it apart.
I can look if I got the glue-package still and send you the name in pm.
Thanks!
what type and brand of glue did you use/ I always used a @4 brass zipper-- Dan
Milky how long is it? Looks nice .
It looks good.
3M contact cement will hold the ends together.
That type shelving board will work for a while. The glazed coating will eventually wear to the wood and it will be some drag and some eventual snagging. (Spent a number of years in the evolution of my own versions of the carpet mill). Don't scrap it though. Go to Stockcarproducts.com or Performancebodies.com. Race car publications that offer a rolled plastic. Usually sold in length of 10ft. Cut it to fit and it will last a lifetime. Cheap too.
Looks good.EWO
I put that on my Colby mill and like it a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...s/Millback.jpg this, is one i built in 2000
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...s/millfron.jpg