Seems like the trend of the game is to value the males more and give them all the cred whenever a good one comes along. But in my opinion i think the females should be held up a lil higher.
What about you?
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Seems like the trend of the game is to value the males more and give them all the cred whenever a good one comes along. But in my opinion i think the females should be held up a lil higher.
What about you?
I agree with you 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise
Owning a good male isn't really necessary ... because you can always breed your key female to a good male.
Owning a truly good, truly prepotent female is worth its weight in gold ... because you have a lot more choices with her and total control over what pups you keep.
Even if you have a great stud, you still need to buy females to have something to breed him to.
Even if you offer "pups back" stud service, not everyone with a great bitch is going to select "your male" to breed her to, so you don't have any real control over what bitches come your way, you can only pick from the available options.
By contrast, if you have the best, most ideal female you can possibly get, you have total control over what you breed her to and which pups you'll be keeping.
Therefore, if given an "either-or" situation, I would always choose getting the best brood bitch I possibly can over "the best stud" ... because I can create the best studs with my bitch through my intelligent breeding choices.
In fact, that is exactly how I created my best stud ever, Poncho, by buying his mama and breeding her to Ch Hammer.
That is how Hollingsworth bred all those great dogs, and how Boyles created all of his best studs, by taking their key foundation bitches to the stud dogs of their choices :idea:
Jack
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You can always pay to breed to a good stud even if the stud is a gr ch,or ch..
but try loaning someone's gr ch,or prized ch bitch,to breed to one of your studs...almost impossible!!
so yes,a good bitch is definitely valued more,in my books!
Without a doubt the bitch is most valuable in a breeding scenario.
On the flip side, it can be argued the male is most valuable on the competition side. As well as once accomplished he will bring far more in stud fees than a bitch will off pups that can be sold.
I think the question would need to be more specific, such as...
As a breeder which is more important?
As a handler which is more important?
And why...
Actually I think it's specific enough for the topic. Even broken down to the different categories it's like this, as far as breeding goes how many times can you breed a female versus a male? Not to mention having it take! I mean I could go on and on but to sum it up the window of opportunity for a female to be successful is way shorter than a male in more ways than one which is what makes her more valuable if indeed she turns out to be what you want.
You are looking at it from a breeding perspective, and while I agree as already mentioned.
If you break it down to showing an individual, a male would be more valuable, no hormones to fool with. Males are shown far more than females, then when retired they yeild more for the pocket book.
I would rather show females than males, and I've always felt that way.
I agree that females are more important, and that's one of the reasons when I fed more dogs, I made sure I got the best bitches I could find.
S_B the you are right about the hormone thing but that is what also makes her more valuable because you just don't get as many chances as you do with males, and as far as studs go just because you retire him don't mean he will produce or make you a bunch of money.
Got to have 3-4 GAME Females....and then go pay a Stud Fee to a Male with the traits you want. KEEP THEM ALL.!!! lol
Well for someone like myself, my main goal is competing in the show ring... I have 4 males and two females. However I did recently purchase a brood bitch off Hurricane and will be breeding her to the best stud my money can buy that has the traits im looking for. Once I make that breeding im hoping my future brood bitch is in there somewhere. .. As of right now though, I value my males more. I have had several associates in the past few months have to pull gyps from a show because they started their cycle early on them while in keep. I personally am not interested in showing gyps. Test them to the point of my satisfaction and let them raise pups. Thats my plan. Thats why I dont and wont keep a lot of females.
Cheque drops were a very good solution to the hormone cycles of a competing female. And you could use them for several years without harming the bitch, in fact the bitches uterus would be in better condition when its time to breed her. As the assault of progesterone being hammered on the uterus like a firing squad does not occur because you are stopping the cycle all together.
As far as I've been able to determine they are no longer on the market (cheque drops), but if someone knows a pharmacist who still compounds this, I'd be highly interested.
I forget where I have my data, but I compiled the statistical data of over 10 years of matches ... to come up with "an average" match time ... and it's a fact that females generally fight harder (and the fights are therefore generally shorter) than males.
Jack
i had the pleasure of starting all the way over after a vacation. 3 years now and i have a 30 dog yard full of pups that i raised from birth. i know everyone of them and how and why they act certain ways. i done all this with 4 brood females that were still alive when i came home. i was recently thinking "what if" hurricane katrina came, who would i take? the same 4 females for sure. a good female is hard to replace. people always talk about jeep bout if you look at his mom vs dad. his mom produced some good dogs, on the other hand bo was a cur and didnt produce as well.
you might want to revisit that, in fact Bo produced a Ch every time he was bred and besides Jeep he also had Ch Magnum who was a ROM dog, I don't think another one of Honeybunch's Offspring accomplished that. I also believed Honey produced more offspring and was bred just as much as Bo was. 1 litter off Trim Moody, Rascal, Oso Negro, Ch Bo, Ch Otis & Gr Zebo. She was bred to Ch Hurt at least 2x no pups and I believe to Rascal a 2nd time with no pups. I think Bo was bred 6x total. It doesn't take away her quality of All Time great as a producer but Bo was once the premier Stud.Quote:
Originally Posted by stopem
Yeah, I agree, I think they both were pretty much the premier producers of their time.
I agree Jack, it was one of those things that just worked beautifully. Like Pistol x Miss Spike, Bullyson x Long's Baby, Ch Hammer x Ms Trinx, Yellow John x Sandy...
I believe a quality female is far more important than a male. I hate breeding dogs!! I hate the thought of it but it doesn't change the fact that you have more control over your future program with quality females. Regardless if you're hooking them or just a breeder I believe the female gives you way more options.
If you want to eliminate pulling bitches from the show ring due to a heat cycle, when they're in school, look at them when they're in heat. At least that way you can see what she does, or doesn't do, while in heat. Heats don't effect all females the same. Some it puts a damper on, some it does nothing to, while I've seen others that refuse to do anything while in heat except stand for a male. It's a simple solution to an old age problem, and it won't take looking at them for any extended amount of time to see what exactly is going to happen while in a cycle.
honey bunch produced gr ch when bred to otis, ch when bred to rascal. no other female has done that. not a jeep or honeybunch fan was just giving my opinion on how value a bitch is over a male. there are not many males that have achieved 3 gr ch and 10 ch like honeybunch did. if i had a choice of a 2 year old bo or a 2 year old honey bunch then i choose honey. show wise i love to see a female dance around for the judges, it's much faster. at the same time males are alot easier to find.
Good postQuote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack