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2 1/2 year old female came in heat a few weeks ago.Been waiting for her to go threw the pocess.She started bleeding and I was waiting for her to swell up.She didnt eat her food sunday.I notice monday that it looked like she wasnt in heat anymore.She weight 51 pounds 100 temp but has a low bloodcount. I been giving her redcell tues nite and some this morning wed.She wont eat or drink.Had solid stool this morning.
That's a low grade fever. Not much to worry about. However, myself, I give some antibiotics for fever as you never know about infection. Amoxicillin or Pen. Something fairly broad spectrum, but safe.
I like liver for bringing RBC up.
Way more qualified guys on this board than myself. Keep checking back and you'll get an answer for your problem.
I been giving her baytril for 3 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmound
You don't just give a high-potency antibiotic like Baytril without knowing WTH you're dealing with. No Quarter Kennel apparently still doesn't get it, as he lost one of his own bitches to this last year, precisely because he thinks he can just sit there and "give antibiotics" for everything that happens to a dog. THIS IS WRONG!!! Sometimes, you need a vet!! ... And you actually need to get an exam, and you need to have THE SENSE to know when to do so :idea:
Any bitch who "acts sick" when pregnant or in heat is a red flag case and needs a vet :idea:
If she is anemic, I would suspect she has babesia (although there is usually a fever associated with it). There are A TON of good articles on here, from babesia to how to use antibiotics. Read them!
It is absolutely wrong just to "give Baytril" to a pregnant/in-heat sick bitch without knowing what's wrong with her. Again, generally, when bitches won't eat while they're bleeding, it is something SERIOUS. Baytril (and some other drugs) MAY be advised, if she has pyometra, but if she has babesia it won't do a thing for her. You need to clarify what is wrong with her ASAP.
A vet visit is mandatory to confirm the babesia, or the pyometra, if she is not eating her food and has a low RBC.
Good luck,
Jack
I'd take her to the vet and check for:
1. Vaginal infection
Get a blood count and see where the rbc 's wbc' s and plasma levels are. Given those results, I'd spend the money on a babesia or Elrichia test. Anytime a dog doesn't eat, it's a concern, I'd give some vitamin B right away to to see if it gives some appetite, but I'd take to the vet right away.
No Quarter Kennel apparently still doesn't get it, as he lost one of his own bitches to this last year, precisely because he thinks he can just sit there and "give antibiotics" for everything that happens to a dog. THIS IS WRONG!!! Sometimes, you need a vet!! ... And you actually need to get an exam, and you need to have THE SENSE to know when to do so
You know what I think Jack? Really? Fucking mind reader are you? For EVERYTHING???? Really, I think this about EVERYTHING that happens to a dog?
So, I'm a dumbass, who thinks only ONE fucking thing about EVERYTHING and b/c I "just sit there" I'm also a lazy motherfucker.
Hang with me, I'm processing what you put together, pertaining to me.
What you just typed is that I'm a lazy fucking dumbass. Is this right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel
I understand that your self-esteem is hurt. That's fine. It needs to be, considering you let your bitch die an agonizing death last year because YES you were too damned lazy to take her to the vet.
If that hurts your feelings, too fucken bad. It's the GD truth and you need to look in the mirror and see it as such.
Yes, as a breeder, I actually read an assload of vet books ... I don't cry "boo hoo" to other people ... I have absolutely made it MY BUSINESS (literally) to make sure I know WTF I was doing, in virtually any possible circumstance, what symptoms mean what, and I damned sure know when to handle it myself and when to go to the vet. Absolutely I know this!
I actually liked you, but the more I listen to you go off, over nothing but THE TRUTH, the more I think ... YES ... you are a dumbass ... and a lazy motherfucker.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel
You ACT like you care, but your actIONS say otherwise.
Last year, you let your bitch die ... nothing you did worked ... and you waited and waited and waited ... until it was too late.
What do you want to call that, Ferg?
Smart?
Conscientious?
On the ball?
I mean, what fucking ILLUSION do you have about yourself and who you are?
Okay, so we all make mistakes, but here you are AGAIN telling some newby to just "give antibiotics" FOR THE SAME DAMNED SYMPTOMS AS WHAT KILLED YOUR OWN BITCH NOT EVEN 1 YEAR AGO!
Hellllllooooo!!!
Is anyone home, Ferg?
Are you even capable of learning?
Hell, for that matter, aren't you right now dealing with yet another dying dog ... asking about the doses of TMZ and such ... when these doses were right next to you in your book?
Do you know that, IN MY LIFE, I have never publicly "asked for help" on a medical issue, Ferg? NEVER.
Do you know WHY?
Because I make it my business to BE informed, that's why.
I have (and have READ) stacks of books with the dosages I need IN FRONT OF ME ... so I don't have to sit around like a chicken with his head cut off asking "help" for this and that.
And I damned sure wouldn't be sitting there asking for dosages for "this or that" ... WITH A GD BOOK SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO ME LISTING THOSE DOSAGES!! :shocked: :embarrassed:
What do you want for this, a medal?
Dogman of the Year? What?
So, listen up COACH, maybe if you're feeling like you got a boot in the ass ... for being lazy and not too bright ... you just MIGHT want to consider the possibility that YOU DESERVE IT :idea:
You sure as shit don't deserve either praise or emulation ... so before you go to cussing and having more of a fit, don't forget the PAGES OF PRAISE you've written me in the past for helping save Lord knows how many other dogs of yours. I have done nothing different here, except YET AGAIN give good advice.
You need to get over your own wounded ego, and recognize that YET AGAIN I have spoken nothing but the GD truth here ... and, in this case, the truth is AGAINST YOU.
So the only question remaining is when TF are you going to wake up and smell the coffee sir? :coffee:
Jack
.
I understand that your self-esteem is hurt. That's fine. It needs to be, considering you let your bitch die an agonizing death last year because YES you were too damned lazy to take her to the vet.
If that hurts your feelings, too fucken bad. It's the GD truth and you need to look in the mirror and see it as such.
Yes, as a breeder, I actually read an assload of vet books ... I don't cry "boo hoo" to other people ... I have absolutely made it MY BUSINESS (literally) to make sure I know WTF I was doing, in virtually any possible circumstance, what symptoms mean what, and I damned sure know when to handle it myself and when to go to the vet. Absolutely I know this!
You interpretation of me "letting" my bitch die isn't entirely accurate. It's self-serving for you to prove your argument that I am a "lazy piece of shit" and a "dumb ass" but it's not accurate. I had a bitch previous to this one with pyometra. AGAINST what my vet advised, I went with information I obtained on this forum. It save her life. Why? B/c I chose to. She warranted saving. When I go through my priorities in life, she fit and was healthy enough to make that investment. The second go round wasn't the same. After taking her in and assessing the situation, it made no sense, or it wasn't worth the investment to save her. My dog, my call.
And I doubt ANYONE will argue that you are aren't insanely prepared, well versed, well educated, etc. on these dogs. Hell, I would come to you b/f any vet I've personally known.
I actually liked you, but the more I listen to you go off, over nothing but THE TRUTH, the more I think ... YES ... you are a dumbass ... and a lazy motherfucker.
You ACT like you care, but your actIONS say otherwise.
Last year, you let your bitch die ... nothing you did worked ... and you waited and waited and waited ... until it was too late.
What do you want to call that, Ferg?
Smart?
Conscientious?
On the ball?
I mean, what fucking ILLUSION do you have about yourself and who you are?
Again, you don't know the entire situation. BUT, to answer your question, I "call it" a mistake. I'm not living under any illusion and I don't think I'm anyone. Essentially, I'm just a guy with bulldogs like 99% of the people on your board and who own this breed.
And for the record, I still like you. I think you are insulting at times and regardless of where I'm at in a situation, I never feel like I'm here for someone else to criticize. That's all.
Okay, so we all make mistakes, but here you are AGAIN telling some newby to just "give antibiotics" FOR THE SAME DAMNED SYMPTOMS AS WHAT KILLED YOUR OWN BITCH NOT EVEN 1 YEAR AGO!
Hellllllooooo!!!
Is anyone home, Ferg?
Are you even capable of learning?
Hell, for that matter, aren't you right now dealing with yet another dying dog ... asking about the doses of TMZ and such ... when these doses were right next to you in your book?
Fever didn't kill my dog. I simply suggested that fever may equal infection, so to give a broad antibiotic. I also said there were more qualified folks than me to get help from. Didn't say that was all there was too it. Maybe I wasn't clear. The dog I am dealing with right now, not that it's anyone's biz, IS NOT MY DOG. I guess you don't believe me, but it's not. It's a dog, that I KNOW has had diarrhea for 6 months before I got it, the owner had it to the vet TWICE and nothing was helping. I offered to help. WHY? BECAUSE OF SOME BAD ASS website I know of that has loads of helpful folks on it. IT IS NOT MY DOG. I also didn't ask about the doses of TMZ. I went to the vet and GOT some TMZ after reading your suggestion and that being my quickest means to obtain it (it's my lazy nature) and THEN I posted about it and where I could get more, cheaper and so forth. It's all in your forum there. YES, I could'v gotten that info from your book, but I honestly overlooked it. I guess that could be misconstrued as lazy as well. But it was an honest mistake. So it wasn't the doses, as you say and it's not my dog as you say.
Do you know that, IN MY LIFE, I have never publicly "asked for help" on a medical issue, Ferg? NEVER.
Do you know WHY?
Because I make it my business to BE informed, that's why.
I have (and have READ) stacks of books with the dosages I need IN FRONT OF ME ... so I don't have to sit around like a chicken with his head cut off asking "help" for this and that.
And I damned sure wouldn't be sitting there asking for dosages for "this or that" ... WITH A GD BOOK SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO ME LISTING THOSE DOSAGES!!
What do you want for this, a medal?
Dogman of the Year? What?
Again, I wasn't asking for dosages. I was asking something else, which yes, was in the book, but I overlooked it. No one is arguing or accusing you of being prepared. Undeniable. I'll bet you a freakin beer though that there's not ANYONE more prepared than you on this board and if anyone else is close to you, I'd be surprised. SO, get ready to be disappointed Jack, you probably really are the Top Dog in that category. An I don't want a medal or award of any kind. Thanks
So, listen up COACH, maybe if you're feeling like you got a boot in the ass ... for being lazy and not too bright ... you just MIGHT want to consider the possibility that YOU DESERVE IT
You sure as shit don't deserve either praise or emulation ... so before you go to cussing and having more of a fit, don't forget the PAGES OF PRAISE you've written me in the past for helping save Lord knows how many other dogs of yours. I have done nothing different here, except YET AGAIN give good advice.
You need to get over your own wounded ego, and recognize that YET AGAIN I have spoken nothing but the GD truth here ... and, in this case, the truth is AGAINST YOU.
So the only question remaining is when TF are you going to wake up and smell the coffee sir?
"Coach"??? I like that. Should'v been my handle here. I disagree that I "deserve" the kick in the ass. There are times I have in many different times of my life, but hey, that goes for you too. I'm not looking for praise, just don't understand the criticism. I can see what kind of picture can be painted, but it's not accurate, not completely, so it's unwarranted. I'm not going to cuss you on here. AND, I won't ever deny TRUTH. YES, I have praised you many times for many things pertaining to dogs. That doesn't change for me. You have done a lot for not only my dogs, but for others with all the tips, tricks, books, forum, etc. PEOPLE ARE USING ALL OF IT. The truth isn't against me. Your opinion of me, I guess, is against me.
Have a good one Jack.
I meant 6 weeks, not months on the diarrhea.
I don't want to argue anymore. I just flipped out when I saw you offering the same "advice" that got your bitch killed last year. I hate to see good dogs die needlessly, when simple vigilance would have prevented the loss (and the suffering prior to the loss).
If you think dying of a uterus filling with pus until it ruptures into the entire bloodstream is anything but agonizing for the bitch, think again.
If you think dying of utter anemia (from babesia) ... to where an animal gets so weak it can't eat or lift its head up ... is a "vacation," think again.
I honestly believe people need to have as many books as possible (and actually read them) to make sure they're informed as to when to handle problems themselves, and when to seek a vet.
I wrote the best book I possibly could to HELP PEOPLE ... and I also gave reference to the best vet books a man can have to KNOW what he's doing medically ...
So if a person doesn't follow through, get these books and read them, then they're a negligent POS as a dogman IMO.
Not knowing is one thing;
But knowing, but not caring enough to get up and do, is quite another :idea:
Anyway, I've said my peace, you've said yours.
In the end, if you get ONE thing out of this (other than the fact I am an asshole :lol:), then GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD:
Any time a bitch is ANYWHERE NEAR her heat cycle, especially right after (or right after she whelps) ... if she starts getting sick, and comes off her feed, it will 9x out of 10 be DEADLY SERIOUS BUSINESS :idea:
Whether it be babesia, pyometra, or acute metritis, all of these are DEADLY SERIOUS CONDITIONS.
Only babesia can be handled without a vet ... provided you have the meds (which is another subject regarding competence/vigilance) ... but it's best to get a vet exam on ANY bitch that is sick during her heat cycle, right after, or right after delivery ... and a GOOD dogman READS UP on these conditions ... so he knows what to look for.
He doesn't just breed dogs and wait for pups to come out ... and he doesn't just "give antibiotics" to a bitch that is laying on her side refusing to eat ...
A good dogman gets up off his ass, he goes to the vet for a cytology and bloodwork, and he finds out what the problem is :idea:
Word.
Jack
Jack, I won't argue any longer either. I've been consistent in my stance that you've done a TON for these dogs and as others have pointed out, for other breeds of dogs as there's not a book or resource like what you provide. I agree with everything you typed in this message, except, that someone is a piece of shit if they don't have every book possible and read them. I agree with the concept that we should all be as informed as possible, but if not being as informed as you, or some other particular reference point makes someone a piece of shit, then practically everyone on this board is a piece of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
We all evolve and grow through any endeavor. You yourself fed kibble once and this isn't about you, me or anyone in particular. I just think it's noteworthy to say that everyone is on different levels at different times.
I still like you, appreciate and value what you provide. Won't always, every single time agree with you or anyone else on this planet, but I know you don't expect that either.
No hard feelings on my end. I just got pissed cause you hurt my feelings :waahh:.......LOL. But I've never been one to just let things go. I respect the hell out of a lot of folks here and fail at times, to show that, but I'll always be a work in progress, the remainder of my life. The minute I'm not, I'll probably die.
Have a good one Jack and hey, let's look at the positives here. B/c of your perspective of me, my stubbornness and yours too, your last post was EXTREMELY informative to A LOT of people reading this. I doubt ANYONE will not know what to do when a bitch is near her heat cycle, pregnant or delivery time and has an illness.
Good times.
I will inform yall when I leave the vet.She been at the vet since this 7 this morning.
Mr. Know it all.Hookworms and a vaginal infection. No babesia.
mmound - what was the protocol?
I will be adding vaginal infection to pyometra and babesia with those symptoms.
The proper wording is she has pyometra infection of the uterus heartworm and hookworms.Mr.Know it all does know it all. CA Jack was right.
How is she doing? Pyometra is pretty serious…
I think one thing that we should all keep in mind is that these dogs are stoic and do not always show how sick they really are. So this can hide symptoms and make the owner think the dog is not too bad off when it might be on death’s door.
One rule of thumb I have used over the years with these dogs is if they won’t eat, really won’t eat and show no interest in food, then that is a strong concern and it’s time to think of a vet visit. Bulldogs generally are good hearty eaters and don’t go off their food for no reason.
I hope your bitch is ok and will recover.
mound - how are they treating it this early in?
I did the prostaglandin treatment advised by some guys on here and it worked for a bitch that got it about 5 weeks into pregnancy. Shit about killed her, the treatment that is. BUT, it ultimately saved her. She's on another yard and they are trying like hell to get some pups off of her, but I honestly think her birthing days are over.
And yes....if you accurately give symptoms, Jack will diagnose it 99 out of 100 times.
Glad you got it pinpointed ... question is, is the pyometra open or closed?Quote:
Originally Posted by mmound
Best of luck,
Jack
Closed Im licking my wounds.
And you're fucking welcome ... you forgot Thank You when you were trying to be a smart ass on the post above this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmound
There is a difference between a "vaginal infection" and PYOMETRA ... which is a hormone-related uterine infection.
That is too bad, for her.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmound
Very tough to save the reproductivity of a bitch with closed pyometra.
You can try, but it's tough.
Jack
From some research I did which I can't seem to find...
They had high success rates with prostaglsmdins combined with muscle relaxers and abx. Maybe talk to your vet about that. The study suggested an 80% survival rate with that and a 37% rate of getting pups on future breedings.
Those who have used prostaglandins like Lutalyse before know how dangerous giving them to a closed case of pyo can be. Talking ruptured uterus. Bad way to die.
Sorry i got some of my percentages wrong on the success rates... but hey... THERE IS HOPE!!! Heres the research and info a great link everyone should have. Scroll down to page 45 for the closed cervix stat info. Please read the whole PDF its very informative.
http://www.blendivet.de/PDFs/Pyometra.pdf
Good research!!
It recently worked for us. She's in heat now. We shall see if she's viable shalt we?!
That is nice to hear ... best of luck :pirate:
I saved a bitch with an open pyometra with prostaglandin about 2 years ago. The treatment itself almost killed her. The vet I used then, said to hit her with it and the next morning, if no "bad discharge", hit her again and do this until it was finished. I had to hit her 3 times. Each time, was terrible. The vomiting and what it does to the dog is way worse than the actual infection.....or appears to be. It did save her life and uterus. However, I honestly do not believe she'll ever have a pup. She's had 4 heat cycles since then. All very weak, no swelling, no flagging. I bred her on one where she "kinda" flagged, nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDan
Best of luck mound.....I'd like to know the suggest treatment for a closed one. The only closed I had, I put down.
Had a buddy who claims a bitch of his had a vaginal infection and that THAT caused the pups eyed to no open early enough and one of the pups come out blind. He says his vet said the vaginal infection was the cause. Any validity to that? What about treatment for Vag Infect?Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
THANKS JACK I said you was right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmound
I had no doubt I was right, been down this road a time or two, so that wasn't the issue.
The issue was you asking for help ... me taking the time to correctly inform you ... and then you coming back like a wise-ass, claiming it was a "vaginal infection" and worms ... calling me a "know it all" ... and then later finding out that "vaginal infection" was in fact pyometra (which is not a vaginal infection; it's a disorder of the uterus).
Nowhere did I see any "thank you" or gratitude for making sure you took your bitch in and telling you what to look for.
You gave just a one-liner or two, and a little lip, followed by an admission I was correct to begin with ... which, again, I didn't need to be told.
I figured it was either pyometra or babesia.
If I had the bitch in front of me, I could have told you which one, but I didn't so I knew that a vet could tell.
Many bitches get symptomatic for babesia when in heat ... because it destroys the blood cells ... and when they lose blood through their heat cycle as well, sometimes it's too much for the body to keep that kind of blood loss in check ... so they start to go down. That's why I said to check for that as well.
The other common ailment is pyometra, which usually starts to lay a bitch out right after they come out of a heat cycle.
It's not rocket science.
It's a matter of having the experience (or being well-read enough) to know what potential troubles lie ahead for bitches in heat.
I have quite a bit of both.
My very first two litters I made, back in 1988, I already had bought two 2-inch-thick vet books ... because I gave a shit enough to be informed right from the beginning ... and you'd best believe that the entire "breeding-whelping" section was read in both books before my bitches ovulated on Day 12 and I was making my breedings. I wanted to be prepared!
I have since added about 9 other topshelf books to my repertoire ... and about 25 years of actual hands-on experience ... more experience than just about any vet author ... so it may "surprise you" that I was right ... but it sure doesn't surprise me.
But what I expect is a little more gratitude, and a little less lip, out of anyone I take the time to help.
Jack
.
Read the pdf I posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel
Sure, infections can affect pups coming out ... same as they can kill the sperm on the way in, preventing the pups even from being alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel
Again, the preventative treatment for possible vaginal infection is in the (apparently still unread) portion of The Pit Bull Bible: Chapter 10; Animal Husbandry & Raising Pups; Preparation of the Female. I have even put the article here on this website.
I give a specific preparatory protocol to follow before breeding any bitch, specifically to prevent any vaginal/mammary infections.
I also gave that same specific preparatory protocol in my (still apparently unwatched) video on the same subject: Preparing the Female.
Again, I have always tried to be prepared ... and that is what I try to show folks who haven't yet got the experience.
However, as with gameness in a dog, the person has to want to take the time read, want to take the time to learn, etc.
All I can do is put the information out there ... I can't force a person to read it / watch it / or learn from it.
That part is on them,
Jack
That really is a good find, Dan, and well worth the read.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelyDan
The article is extensive, and exhaustive, but a person has to care enough to read it :idea:
It gives statistics, symptoms, everything.
Relevant to the discussion here, and the need for a vet, this article states: "Each case of uterine disease in the bitch has primary to be considered as an emergency because of its potential of uterine rupture and death from septicemia," which is pretty much what I said in the beginning ... and is why I got so wound-up over the "sit around and do nothing" protocol ...
I will re-post the article again here: http://www.blendivet.de/PDFs/Pyometra.pdf
Edit: The reader will note that I said treatment for closed pyometra can be done, but it's rough and not often successful. Well, in support of this, according to this report the success rate is only 31% (16 succeeded out of 53 treated) for closed pyometra (compared to a 94% success rate in open). However, the good news is all 16 that successfully treated were able to whelp pups :)
I've read the preparation part in the book Jack, I was just curious about the treatment of a vaginal infection in comparison to the treatment of Pyometra. I know how to treat Pyometra now, but not a vaginal infection. I've read the preparation portion of the book and won't breed one of my dogs without going through those steps, but I wanted to know the treatment of vaginal infection and not the prevention of.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Just trying to converse and learn.....that's all.
Mmound come on here originally saying he had a vaginal infection. My buddy said he had one....not a tight friend, just a guy I know really, so I'd rather ask here as to the treatment of a vag infection.
Is there a "flushing" or anything like that or is it, dare I say, strictly an antibiotic situation? The specificity of my question pertains to the actual infection and not the prevention and while I agree, preventative measures are best, it is doing my "due diligence", is it not, to know how to treat it should it occur? Not smart assing Jack,,,,,genuinely wanting to know. It's Friday, I have a half day at work with chores later on and wanted to see what I could learn.
Thanks
Had surgery she made it. But she can never have pups.
Sorry about that Mmound.
I assume she needed to be spayed? Very few vets keep up with newer techniques and even fewer are willing to try something with a low probability.
Yeah SteelyDan spayed.Can pyometra be inherited? I just found out her mother had it.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that hormone imbalances can be inherited. I've never seen evidence to suggest it. I've seen rhesus monkey tests that show prolapse is inherited.