if anyone knows the story, the dog was hurt prety bad and then courtesied who here thinks the dog should have been picked up and saved over a stupid scratch
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if anyone knows the story, the dog was hurt prety bad and then courtesied who here thinks the dog should have been picked up and saved over a stupid scratch
Wee bit more info in this month's journal.....
I always believe it is better to pick up a great dog 15 min too early than 1 second too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by bolero
Jack
She was picked up around the half hour mark. They worked on her and tried to save her. She had sustained too much damage. What else could be done, Bolero? The courtesy scratch didn't kill her.
Frosty is right. If she stood the line or not been allowed to courtesy scratch she still would have died.
mayb not mayb it did he said he had to prop her up not only on the courtesy but also, the scratch im sorry but if i have to prop my dog up even once i am picking up, i have only lost one dog and that was when i first started. no doubt that dog died doing what it wanted ti do but it is up to us to not let it get that farQuote:
Originally Posted by FrostyPaws
I agree with Bolero that if a dog has to be propped up to stand, then it should not be allowed to scratch.
Also, if it had to have her legs aligned just right to stand, then she was left down too long.
:30 doesn't seem like a lot, but I've been in situations where if there wasn't a pick up in :04 there would be a DOA.
I remember one time I could just see that one dog had no defense, and the other dog bit hard enough to crush the sternum/bone, and we picked up in :04.
The picked up dog was still very much in the fight, but he has badly wounded (and didn't know it); Ten minutes later, his chest flesh was deep red and swollen from hemorrhage, and he was out of it. It took 6 weeks to heal. Had we left the two in there for :10-:15 I don't think the one would have lived.
Like boxing, sometimes when 2 greats meet it can go awhile, but other times it is still a mismatch. Like when Tyson fought Spinx. That lasted less than 1 round. No way could you let Spinks keep getting hit on the floor for another 10-15 minutes or he'd be dead.
The same is true with these dogs, and it's up to the owner to have the sense to SEE what's actually happening in there, assess the damage and likelihood for recovery, and get in there and stop it if it needs to be stopped. You don't have to "wait for a handle," you get in there and get the dog up if it's getting killed.
Jack
sometimes you gotta be smarter than your dog....these dogs dont exactly "rationalize" .......
Again, being propped up to scratch has nothing to do with her dying. She was picked up. They tried to save her. No one thought she would lose. I know she KIA'd a champion in Mexico in 12 minutes. She wasn't a dog to be trifled with. When he saw he couldn't win, he picked her up. She ran a courtesy, propped up or not. Her running the courtesy with propped up legs had nothing to do with her dying.
He also said he thought Dentista could possibly weather what Siega was doing to get where she wanted to do. He gave his bitch, widely thought of as the best dog at her weight in the world, a chance to do her thing. When she couldn't win, he picked up. The man did the right thing.
frosty me and u have gone over this before u think he did the right thing and mayb he did i just disagree like i said from the info given he should of picked up the first time he proprd her up but i was not there and it is not my dog he knows his dogs better than me and it was his call not mine
A dog may need to be propped up because of hitting a heat wall or muscle fatigue or from pain. Im not saying any of these things were the case in this situation but having to prop one up dosent mean that its time to pick up. I feel he picked up when the time was right. And its not like the first scratch and the courtesy were 10 or 15mins apart. Nothing wrong with proping to scratch and as soon as your dog takes the bottom again conceding the show.
Bolero, it's simply a matter of what you're there for. He was there to do his best to win. He's not the only person to ever prop a dog up and then lose. He could've just as easily WON with propping her up. She was still in the match at that time. You should pick up when you don't have a chance of winning not at the first sign of trouble. From the information given, his bitch was still in the fight and had a chance. When his bitch was no longer in the fight and had no chance, he did the right thing in picking her up.
I agree with all your posts. It's not like he had some dog he had no clue about he had a gyp he was working with going for her 5th. So he had good knowledge about the gyp and what she could take. Talk to him or anybody that was there and they will tell you that he did no wrong and even around 25min mark when his gyp really had took bottom because for the first 10 mins she was laying the boom before things evened up but around 25 his gyp really was on the bottom he told Chino that his bitch would weather the storm from Siega and then get back and finish her job as she has done her 4 previous wins, well a few mins later when he seen his bitch wouldn't make the comeback he picked up. Like Frost said you dont pick up at the first sign of trouble you pick up when you have no chance to win and when that became reality he picked up immediately. It was a rare show, and by rare I mean rare when two great dogs are in great condition and both going for something. It was game 7 of the World Series, you give your ace in your pocket an opportunity to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyPaws
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRed
I agree with the gist of what you said, except one tiny detail: the bitch is dead.
If a man "knows his bitch and picks up at the right time," then his bitch would still be alive.
The simple fact of the matter is he picked up too late.
I am not trying to knock anyone, but there was a point the bitch could have been saved, and it is clear that he waited past that point.
Jack
Great point and you made the point earlier that it's better to pick up 15 mins too early then 1 minute too late. I think it was a misjudgement of how much damage was taken espeically since Dentista was the one coming out guns blazing but that Siega was still able to do that much amount of damage in that short period was a miscalculation on his part. I know for sure he did not want his bitch to die, and they tried to save her. I agree he could of picked up early but that in itself doesnt mean the gyp would have lived. Trust me he's mad at himself for his bitch dying and yes we all agree he picked up late, but I dont think he should be deemed abusive or bashed because he picked up his gyp a second too late. He made an error and I'm sure he will learn from it without doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Even if you pick up, when you think you should, you have no guarantee your dog will live. I know this personally.
I'm sure there was a point where she could've been saved. Unfortunately, there's a lot of grey in deciding when that time is, especially if you're ahead.
Showing dogs brings an inherent risk of things turning out the worst way possible for the dog. If a person shows dogs, they know this, and they should accept it. No matter how much right you try to do by the dogs, the right will not always simply be good enough. I'm positive he knew that risk. I'm also positive they did everything they could to save one of the best dogs in the world after she lost.
I would have to say even the best dogman/women could misjudged that right time of when to and when not to pick up that split second could cost you! And sometimes that's when you could see were the gentleman in the game has went and were pride has taken over! For some it very hard to shake their opponents hand and say " you kicked my ass today be we will meet again" with a :-) on their face! Now I'm just the same as anyone else I hate to lose but I would much rather lose on a game pick up and have that game plug to add to the family of hounds then to be stuck with a bunch of would of,should have's! You can't win them all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyPaws
Well said.