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Was wondering the criteria for a hound to have the honor? Congrats to vengeance but i must admitt there where a couple dogs that did really well last yr who put a lot more work in then vengeance. I know i might get some flac for this but there where some other dogs worthy of this title.
Well, it doesn't get too much better than beating a fellow Grand Champion, so I would have to imagine that's why.Quote:
Originally Posted by H.B.K.
Still, anytime "one" dog gets DOY there will always be other great dogs that don't get the title. This doesn't diminish the greatness of the other dogs in any way, it just means the editor of a magazine made a personal decision.
Jack
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I Will not say these dogs should have been DOY but i i honestly think that they are great noticable dogs off the last year or two.
Gr ch Virus defeated gr ch santiago for his Gr ch award.
Gr ch Croata was a Ecuador legend born of a litter of 8 pups off a pure croatian famous stud dog name villi 2nd
I was wondering does doy include what offspring accomplish that yr to or is based on just performance?
Between his performance and production the way his offspring came out he deserve it to me. I hope mine are as good.
I am out of that loop. What year did Virus defeat Santiago? How about the Croatia dog, any info on him?Quote:
Originally Posted by YigYang
If anyone has any first hand info on these dogs, I would like to learn more about them.
8-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by killercombine
let me say congrats to a dog who will be considered one of the best of all time, and like all things once dead and gone he will be more apprieciated then he is alive. Thats what i was trying to understand does production play a part in doy and since it does then he deff deserved it. I know he beat hobo which a great feat in its self but on performance there where a few hounds who put better performances together this yr. Again congrats to ur camp and V u guys deff put him into the history books!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.B.K.
In a spirit of respect for all the dogs involved, as all of them surely do deserve respect, could you give us your perspective as to what performances were better from which other dogs?
Suppose one of the dogs you envision actually did win the coveted DOY Title, there would then be a lot of commotion about a dog like Vengeance coming out of retirement to beat a Grand Champion. That would be like former World Champion Marvin Hagler coming out of retirement to beat a current World Champion, while 3 of his sons made Champion, and a 4th just missed the opportunity because the opponent pulled out.
As I mentioned earlier, regardless of who gets the nod for the title by the author of the magazine, this doesn't diminish the greatness of the other dogs who didn't get chosen. So I would be interested to learn your thoughts on the matter as to who should have won and why.
Thanks!
Jack
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[quote=CA Jack][quote="H.B.K.":19az6adp]let me say congrats to a dog who will be considered one of the best of all time, and like all things once dead and gone he will be more apprieciated then he is alive. Thats what i was trying to understand does production play a part in doy and since it does then he deff deserved it. I know he beat hobo which a great feat in its self but on performance there where a few hounds who put better performances together this yr. Again congrats to ur camp and V u guys deff put him into the history books!!![/quote]
In a spirit of respect for all the dogs involved, as all of them surely do deserve respect, could you give us your perspective as to what performances were better from which other dogs?
Suppose one of the dogs you envision actually did win the coveted DOY Title, there would then be a lot of commotion about a dog like Vengeance coming out of retirement to beat a Grand Champion. That would be like former World Champion Marvin Hagler coming out of retirement to beat a current World Champion, while 3 of his sons made Champion, and a 4th just missed the opportunity because the opponent pulled out.
As I mentioned earlier, regardless of who gets the nod for the title by the author of the magazine, this doesn't diminish the greatness of the other dogs who didn't get chosen. So I would be interested to learn your thoughts on the matter as to who should have won and why.
Thanks!
Jack
.[/quote:19az6adp]
First let me say that if the criteria is performance and production then he most deff deserves doy honor. But if its just performance then here r a few that i can think of that performed better over a calender yr.
[url="http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_ id=377608"]http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=377608[/url]
son of vengeance who i didnt see personally but did his thing winning three with a bis and gis
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=325995
3 in 6 months and 23 days twice over the 130 mark winning gis at his first all before he was 2 and a half.
There r one or two more but not sure if they would want to be mentioned on here.
8-)
i sent u a pm dont have permission from the other sides to put there handles on the board but as i have shown u i sure didnt go into sheep and he won 3 in 6m 23 days going into a 1xw first time out and a 2xw for his third. What i did was went into camps that have bred and raised and campained winners and chs. He won gis on the same card ch. faceoff won bis he was witnesses by many of good camps and all who saw him knows he was above average in all aspects and a terrible mouth dog!!! No disrespect taken at all im here representing my hound so questions r warnted i hope i answered for u.
8-)
he did his thing u cant take anything away from him, and i sure am not trying to but from what i hear hobo should of retired and V should of stayed retired. (i'm in hobo neck of the woods). Would i have liked to go into 3 chs of course but i went into good kennels and defeated them and they sure didnt think they where getting beat when they contracted. Is it not a test and do the kennels who have won and competed against the best time after time count regardless if they bring a 1st time out or a winner or better because they have proven that there eye to bring a good one is constant. The journal made a good choice and again congrats on all ur camps success, and to one of the best hounds of all time!!!
Gotta love it... Respect, u don't see it much on these boards... Y'all get my respect, fo sho!!! :D
Who was voting body on the title? If you know? Also DOY is for your accomplishments of the year not over time. I think V will be a good dog for dog of decade if SDJ decides to do that as well, and I wouldn't say Hobo was much younger he was 7 and with a lot of mileage, I wanted him with a 2x but we couldn't agree because I was told by several the dog didn't travel well and I refused to go to their backyard..Quote:
Originally Posted by killercombine
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.B.K.
I heard that Pongo dog was one helluva dog.. I know folks who know Hobo old handler and they said they dog should of been retired after winning Ch. He also was probably a 45 1/2 dog who was taken up to 48 a few times.. V did what he had to do and they were part of history very rare two GrCh meet up so Congrats to both of them for making it happen.
8-)
8-)
For anyone who wanted a PDF download of the Gr ch Vengeance Journal and the Gr ch Crota Journal here is a link for a a free download
thnx and good lluck
http://www.sportingdogjournal.info/
just scroll to the bottom of the page and you will see free download near by the journal itself
Quote:
Originally Posted by YigYang
Thanks for posting :)
No problem.. i will try to keep everyone updated on info like this
IMO, for what its worth If Gr Ch's and Ch's are in the running together, it would seem obvious that the Ch's would get overlooked unless their Ch title was done in extreme devasting fashion. i know of Vengence, although I don't know him, and believe he definitely is as deserving as a few others that come to my mind, just from the references provided. Coming out of retirement to solidify his place definitely in history holds a lot more weight that some of the other factors that are often considered. Also, I see you put one of your dogs in the running that's a normal reaction from the gut as we all feel we should be given our just due, but also a tad bias from under my microscope. That being said, I think accepting the outcome is the noble thing to do as we dont have much unity in the sport as it is. Where bulldogs are concerned, everybody is a judge, :lol: but it is at the discretion of the one bestowing the award to make the final decision. Let's all respect that rather than critique or analyze the accurateness. We all get our time, but it usually is not under our control to decide when that time is. Such is life.
being that this is a sport and in all sports we have different opinions when it comes to who deserves different honors. Like now there r many people who believe breese deserves poy, and others think arron rodgers deserve it and who ever wins it desereves it but it's still a topic of conversaion. Do i think there where other hounds who deserved the honor yes but do i think that Vengeance didnt deserve it no. He in my eyes will come to be one of the greatest of all times and i give all kudos to him and his camp. If u dont stand behind what u believe then what u believe means nothing!!! If u ask sean payton he will say breese is the most valuable player and if u ask mike malarkie he will say arrron rodgers is, well i was pongo's coach and i gave my opinion to what i believe to be the case. Great job KC!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool Killer
Fair enough friend, fair enough.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...res/311768.jpg
Looks like Vengeance's daughter (Ch Blaze) just made Champion, making Gr Ch Vengeance a Register of Merit producer two weeks after New Year.
What a helluva dog.
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YigYang
did you see that match? i did and it was not doy worthy
I would at least put Gr CH Sofia in the runnings... She made grand and her only living son made CH the same year as well. But after reading about Gr Ch Vengeance, I see why he won.
8-)
You're more than welcome for the just due that your dog is getting. I saw the news over there and thought I would personally congratulate you over here, so I appreciate your comments and support here as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by killercombine
As for wiping the smile off of the faces of haters, I truly understand the feeling friend, as (after all) that is why my handle over there is SmileWiper :lol: ... so I am sure the accomplishment for you is doubly-sweet, given the circumstances :D
But, in all seriousness, congratulations on having a once-in-a-lifetime dog in Gr Ch Vengeance (2x DOY + ROM).
May he live a long life and launch a legacy.
Cheers,
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killercombine
how old is gr ch vengeance now n would u be willing to post some new pics of him?
8-)
Too bad about the pics. That is a hella good looking dog you own my friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
I believe Virus beat Santiago in '07. I saw that match. It was a good one.
virus is rip, santiago as well