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I was wondering if you been into these dogs for over 10-15 years and you still don't have your own line of dogs, your getting good dogs from well know Dogmen just off of the relationships you've built over the years does that make you a good Dogman or a Dogman at all ?
I could write a book on this subject :mrgreen:Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesaun
This reminds me of a great interview I did with Hardcore Kennels, but I think the ability to reliably and consistently breed truly superior dogs is the halmark of someone who truly understands dogs.
Some people know what a good dog "looks like," when they see one, but they cannot make the breedings which will continually produce them ... so they have to "buy what they use" rather than being able to produce it for themselves.
Jack
What does it matter what title you get as long you do what you love to do.
Not everyone got the space and time to create their own line of dogs.
And some might be able to do so, but are crap at conditioning or taking care of their dogs.
Or then you have those dogman with a 4-6 generation of dofs, only to end up with average quality.
For now im happy racing, but if you do get to own that dog you dream about and which you have succes with, i can't imagine one wouldnt want to build around that dog. I would. Some people are to breed happy and/or are satisfied really quickly.
People who say, that aint no dogman because he never created his own line, are probably people that standing on the sideline.
Good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
True also.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
Not sure what a DOF is, but most people like to align "a lot of Champions" in their pedigrees, that have no rhyme or reason together, and wonder why nothing can win (or maybe get 1 out of 8 good dogs).Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
Nothing wrong with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
Works the other way too: some people are too show-happy, they run boatloads of dogs into the ground, treat them like shit, discard them when they can no longer win, and buy another dog with their drug money ... but don't know shit about diseases, medicine, breeding, nutrition, or anything else ... but they call themselves "dogmen" because they match lots of dogs :idea:Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
And some people who call themselves "dogmen" sure ask a lot of questions and always seem to "need help" on a lot of different subjects as they pertain to dogs ...Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
Jack
BTW: This is not referring to you R2L, just sayin' in general :)
Good point being made but there's one thing that I don't agree with is
(Quote:
some people who call themselves "dogmen" sure ask a lot of questions and always seem to "need help" on a lot of different subjects as they pertain to dogs ...
You say this like it's a bad thing I don't care how long you been into these dogs you'll always have questions the only ones that feel they don't need answers from else where are the ones who are big headed.. Other than that good points made.Quote:
True that JackQuote:
Works the other way too: some people are too show-happy, they run boatloads of dogs into the ground, treat them like shit, discard them when they can no longer win, and buy another dog with their drug money ... but don't know shit about diseases, medicine, breeding, nutrition, or anything else ... but they call themselves "dogmen" because they match lots of dogs
:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesaun
I agree there is always room for new learning, however there is a "yes" and "no" as to whether or not a person is going to be "always asking questions."Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesaun
As I just explained to R2L in private, I no longer ask breeding questions, for example, as I have bred deeper into my own line than 99.999999% of anyone who's ever bred any kind of dog, who's ever breathed the air, and I have answered virtually all of the breeding questions I have ever had ... and I have busted a lot of myths in the process. With the amount of time, effort, and breedings I have done ... producing winners in every generation ... all tracing back to the original dogs I purchased and first bred together ... I sure as hell am not going to be asking anyone "online" any breeding questions, ever, about "what to do" or "where to go" with any breeding I want to make with my own family of dogs. (But, because of how long and well I have bred dogs ... and the same family at that ... I will forever be asked questions on breeding dogs ...)
However, with new drugs always coming out, and the dosages forever changing on old drugs, there will always be something to learn ... not to mention continual advents in nutrition and conditioning ... so there will always be something to learn here too. In this case, I know enough people in dogs with truly deep knowledge in these regards, and so I know where to go on the instances where I seek clarification.
So, yes, there is always room to learn. However, if a person has 25 years in dogs ... and has already asked all the right questions early ... and has developed any kind of competence at all over the years ... his questions will start getting fewer and farther between ... and he will be answering more questions than he asks. As well he should :idea:
Jack
Some are not worthy to be called dogman. Not because of the fact that they never created their own line. But because of the quote from jack i posted above.
For those who do take it serious it takes allot of love, devotion, sacrifices, knowledge and having to deal with the type of people you find in this sports, to be out there and compete. So for people to say/think they are not to be called dogman, they must have been on the sideline. This was ofc also not dedicated to Jack.
I don't think you have to do it all to be a good dog man as long as one is honest about what he does/has done and openly acknowledges what he has not. I know a guy who did dogs thru the 70's and 80's that never bred but a handful of dogs and his percentages were maybe .500 or slightly better. He bought dogs, bred a few, had some placed with him but what was a constant was there was always 8-10-12 dogs that were open to the world. He matched into some of the 'names' of his era and did really well.
As a dog man he was an exceptional conditioner and handler. He acknowledged the fact he had no desires to breed, create or sustain a line. Puppies were a hassle and brood dogs were a waste of chain spaces. I do not think that choice takes away from 'dog man' status.
I am a believer in that it takes all kinds to make the game go around. Some that do some and some that do it all and those that fall in between. Tons of great dogs are based from a yard/breeder who never did squat in the box. We need those guys. There a ton of dogs who did the box work at one camp but then was a prolific producer in another camp. We need them too. Some camps do it all. They hold their place as well.
I do agree with Jack that the Hardcore interview is a great piece. I think one should do as much as they can with their dogs, should do everything they can to be the best that they can in their particular situation and should be self sustaining when at all possible. EWO
Excellent postQuote:
Originally Posted by EWO
Agreed, another great post by EWO.
Just re-read the Hardcore interview. Just as good this time around. The last part is so true. If one has been in two years or less the best advice is to get out now. So true. Stay in long enough and it will consume you and everything that is you. It can be a commitment like none other. The last part of the interview maybe as solid as any dog man advice I have ever read.
The second part I enjoyed was the downplaying of the internet (as I type away on the internet) and how it has 'popularized' the dogs which is never a good thing. The analogy to the burglars sharing heists and plans is epic.
Like I said, just as good this time around. EWO
Well, don't feel bad, EWO, everyone succumbs to a little hypocrisy ...
Because, remember, as Hardcore himself was advising "to stay out of the limelight" and to "stay off the internet" ... he was sitting there on my sofa giving me a full-fledged interview for my magazine (which was being advertised on the internet) ... was he not? ;)
:lol:
Jack
Sounds like very good advise EWO, i guess its already to late for me. Where are those how do i get out of the dogs clinics?
But then again, who's going to actually listen to that advice.
True Jack. Let's keep it underground but here are basically match reports of my dogs. Sort of cuts both ways.
And R2L, I think it goes like, Hi!, My name is EWO and I have a problem. When I am riding down a back road and see an old barn off in the distance I do not see the chance for a great photograph. I see a great place to do dogs. I do not see the fog and mist rising off farm land in the cool autumn mornings. I see a great place to walk dogs and drag chains. I am admitting I have a disease to the support group. EWO
Haha great way of putting it Ewo. Me for one love my addiction. I'll bet i would be addicted to a way worse thing than dogs if i didn't had them. Thats just who i am, dogs saved my life. Thats not a joke.
lmao. I was visiting some new potential houses a while back. They all wondered why i wanted to see the yard before going inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
Hello my name is R2L and while my friends are watching the world cup qualification, im in the shed with a dog a rabbit and a gameboy.
http://s13.postimg.org/cs2o68h2v/008.jpg
I would be the same. My wife is not the biggest of fans of the dogs. We were at the beach a few years ago and there was a beach front house for sale she wanted to inquire about. I told her no need because my axles would not stay in the sand along the dunes. "If looks could kill"...
I hear you on checking out the 'grounds'. EWO
That is too funny! I can only imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
I feel like the mutant off X-men. Remember when Xavier told Magneto he was not alone? Thought i really needed some sort of help, because i see land or secluded areas and study to see the traffic, if none I'm thinking this is where I will be walking hounds to drag chains or get some run in.. Look at old Chicken Barns or Horse Barnes and say man expand this stable and this would be great for some pups lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
:lol:
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Shoot!!! My hounds have more food stored away than I do for my own house, I'm glad I don't have a lot of kids cause there would be a lot of culling going on between them...lmao...just joking
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2L
Niiiice
Too many variables if you are talking about a sport of any kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesaun
There are great coaches, trainers, conditioners (both strength and stamina), managers, promoters, etc, etc.
In bulldogs, there have been legendary conditioners and handlers who just did not breed dogs.
Many great breeders who never conditioned or handled dogs.
Integrity is where you find it and where people invest the most of who they are into what they want to excel in.
:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by EWO
Many dogmen in my day had no particular bloodline that they stuck with forever but some did. I bought 90% of the dogs I fought. It was easier to test someone elses dogs and buy which one I wanted. The other way is a slower process. It bothered me worst to see a dog I bred get hurt. I got to attached to them. It didn't bother me if I bought the dog. Tudor added and kept dogs from everywhere. If you follow him through the years of his history he had dogs from lots of bloodlines. Mayfield said Tudor had the only true pure dogs. If that were true that makes lots of bloodlines the only true pure dogs. Jim Williams acquired dogs from lots of different people and had several top dogs from all over through the years. Tudor didn't add as many bloodlines to his stuff after 1954. That was because here in Oklahoma liquior got legalized. Tudor who was a Bootlegger didn't have the money to play any longer. No person needed to buy from a bootlegger anymore. He didn't even paint his house. Bill De Cordova got dogs from Earl Tudor and Jim William and didn't seem to go to far from home to acquire what he wanted. Boudreaux kept lots of the same stuff around for years. Lots of men from the 80's on up developed bloodlines that any man could be proud of. They were a little bit more educated on health issues and breeding issues. There are lots of good dogs today but there are more sorry dogs than ever. Everytime the good increases the bad manages to stay a long ways ahead. My wife use to say when I came home. I kissed the dogs and petted her on the head. Women can think up the weirdest things to say just to nail you. Just some thoughts from and old man. Randy
I think "lines" tend to develop around GOOD DOGS ... at least that is how it should be :idea:Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxman
In other words, when a truly great dog pops up, you're going to see (smart) people breeding around that dog and developing a line out of it.
Unfortunately, a lot of "pure dogfighters" (who buy dogs) don't have the sense to do this ... and let truly great genetic potential slip away.
...
Every woman I have ever been with has eventually gotten jealous of the attention I paid to my dogs, without exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxman
And they also got jealous of the fact every dog we had just seemed to "love me more" than her ... which, of course, goes back to the attention I pay to my dogs compared to most "normal" people :lol:
Jack