Puppies getting into it

So I have a litter and the alpha male got into it with my favorite bitch from the litter. They got very serious and I just let them swap it out a bit which I now feel really stupid for doing. The other pups saw them and they all ganged up on the girl and really shook her up and made her holler pretty bad before I could separate them. When I broke them off she took off running into a bush and is acting really shy of them now. Was just wondering if I possibly ruined the best acting female in my litter and what yalls experience is with situations like this. She's 3 months old by the way. I understand I made a huge mistake and I already feel bad about it so no need to let me know. Just wanted to know if anyone had similar experiences and if she'll be okay. Jack, I would really appreciate your input since you have tons of experience with puppies. Thanks in advance.

I will chime in, and if it were strictly for Jack I apologize. More than likely not that big of a deal. Tomorrow three or four will jump the next one and so on and so on. It is just puppies establishing order. The order can/will change back and forth as they grow til separation. I would not think it is the end of the world and I doubt the pup is permanently scarred. I will agree it may be a sign to you that this group may need separation sooner than later but I would think the little female will just fine in time. EWO

Thank you for your input and yes I would like as many people to chime in as possible. Oh and I have "definitely" separated them. I guess I didn't do a good enough job at explaining the situation. They would've killed each other if I let them go. It was the worst puppy brawl I have ever seen and their intentions were to kill. You should've seen the look on my face. They really tore each other up.

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Originally Posted by hogdog

So I have a litter and the alpha male got into it with my favorite bitch from the litter. They got very serious and I just let them swap it out a bit which I now feel really stupid for doing. The other pups saw them and they all ganged up on the girl and really shook her up and made her holler pretty bad before I could separate them. When I broke them off she took off running into a bush and is acting really shy of them now. Was just wondering if I possibly ruined the best acting female in my litter and what yalls experience is with situations like this. She's 3 months old by the way. I understand I made a huge mistake and I already feel bad about it so no need to let me know. Just wanted to know if anyone had similar experiences and if she'll be okay. Jack, I would really appreciate your input since you have tons of experience with puppies. Thanks in advance.

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That's a good way to ruin/lose your pups.

When they begin to start is when you need to begin the separation process.

Yes, it was stupid to sit there and watch the whole pack get on your bitch all at once, but it sounds like you've already figured that out :)

I've had to keep fully-started pups separate as early as 6 weeks ... while others could stay together for 4-5 months. Still, by the time they're 3 months they should always be in pairs, only, because (yes) they do have a tendency to gang-up and will kill the hapless "one" they choose very quickly :idea:

Jack

I have seen it that way as well. All litters are not created equal. Some have to be separated early and others can be together for quite some time. In that aspect the litters can be as individual as the dogs in the litter themselves. Every litter may require a different set of guidelines.

If it is continued it can most definitely get a pup off to the wrong start. Mostly because they are learning the pack way of life at that age. If one goes down today, even if he was your pal yesterday, the group sails on him. Most times it is a non-issue because it only lasts a matter of seconds, but....and there is always a but...those litters that get two or three turned on really early and you can have a mess in a very short time.

The last litter we had here had to be separated early. There was one female that would light up a littermate if they did as little as brush up against her. The worst and yet funniest part, was she would stay mad for the longest. I mean 30 minutes later she was still jacked up and pissed off at the world. She became a solitary confinement dog 6-7 weeks old. Two males in the same litter lived together til they were five months old and could have went longer if given the opportunity.

Best of luck with the litter. Most of the times the puppies will tell us when things need to happen, we just have to pay attention when they are speaking to us and act accordingly. EWO

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Originally Posted by EWO

I have seen it that way as well. All litters are not created equal. Some have to be separated early and others can be together for quite some time. In that aspect the litters can be as individual as the dogs in the litter themselves. Every litter may require a different set of guidelines.

If it is continued it can most definitely get a pup off to the wrong start. Mostly because they are learning the pack way of life at that age. If one goes down today, even if he was your pal yesterday, the group sails on him. Most times it is a non-issue because it only lasts a matter of seconds, but....and there is always a but...those litters that get two or three turned on really early and you can have a mess in a very short time.

The last litter we had here had to be separated early. There was one female that would light up a littermate if they did as little as brush up against her. The worst and yet funniest part, was she would stay mad for the longest. I mean 30 minutes later she was still jacked up and pissed off at the world. She became a solitary confinement dog 6-7 weeks old. Two males in the same litter lived together til they were five months old and could have went longer if given the opportunity.

Best of luck with the litter. Most of the times the puppies will tell us when things need to happen, we just have to pay attention when they are speaking to us and act accordingly. EWO

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Right! I have a few get picked on litter after litter and when they get older sometimes bigger than the pups or pup that picked on them or they was just a slow starter often when I let them play to burn off some of that energy ( pay backs a bitch ) lol ! Kinda like a little bro getting a big bro back when older oh it happens!

Whenever we had that issue, we always separated the instigator from the rest of the pack. Usually that solved the issue all the way around for our pups. You'll also notice, over time, that some dogs will produce pups that will kill, gut, eat, etc other littermates whereas other dogs will produce pups that can stay together for what seems an eternity.

Cyrus and Bullet, two former studs we had, would ALWAYS produce litters where pups were regularly killed and eaten if they weren't separated by 8 weeks of age. Neither of those dogs ever produced anything worth keeping. Frosty Paws, the best producing dog I've ever owned, never produced pups that did such a thing. They could generally live together for months on end if I'd let them. So, pay attention to what breeding created that, and keep up with what each individual parent produces bred differently and try to nail it down.

I appreciate the input but I guess I didn't make my question clear. "Has anyone had this experience with a puppy and seen them overcome it and blossom into a good dog?"

Hogdog, there simply is no "one" case that will be a blanket statement for all other cases.

This is one of the things that infuriates me about the "thinking" of most dogmen: you guys actually believe that one man's case has anything to do with yours. It doesn't!

Whether one of my pups was ruined or not has NO BEARING on what is going to become of your pup. None at all.

That is like wondering if one of my pups grows up to be game, will yours? Or if one of my dogs grows up to suck, that this will in any way affect your pup? It won't!

Your job now is to RAISE your pup, to TREAT IT WELL, and to SEE HOW SHE TURNS OUT ... after she matures, gets bumped, schooled and FAIRLY evaluated.

No one here has a crystal ball ... and nobody's experience with their pup getting over their trauma has any bearing whatsoever on your pup.

And you are just going to have to come to terms with this and get your head straight.

It was a little scuffle, nothing more, so stop trying to judge a GD puppy or predict her future. Instead, why don't you concentrate on BUILDING her confidence with socialization, affection, and good ol-fashioned FUN and PLAY ... and let US know how she turns out in a couple of years :mrgreen:

Jack

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Hogdog, there simply is no "one" case that will be a blanket statement for all other cases.

This is one of the things that infuriates me about the "thinking" of most dogmen: you guys actually believe that one man's case has anything to do with yours. It doesn't!

Whether one of my pups was ruined or not has NO BEARING on what is going to become of your pup. None at all.

That is like wondering if one of my pups grows up to be game, will yours? Or if one of my dogs grows up to suck, that this will in any way affect your pup? It won't!

Your job now is to RAISE your pup, to TREAT IT WELL, and to SEE HOW SHE TURNS OUT ... after she matures, gets bumped, schooled and FAIRLY evaluated.

No one here has a crystal ball ... and nobody's experience with their pup getting over their trauma has any bearing whatsoever on your pup.

And you are just going to have to come to terms with this and get your head straight.

It was a little scuffle, nothing more, so stop trying to judge a GD puppy or predict her future. Instead, why don't you concentrate on BUILDING her confidence with socialization, affection, and good ol-fashioned FUN and PLAY ... and let US know how she turns out in a couple of years :mrgreen:

Jack

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:appl:

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Originally Posted by hogdog

I appreciate the input but I guess I didn't make my question clear. "Has anyone had this experience with a puppy and seen them overcome it and blossom into a good dog?"

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You must have not read my post but Mr Jack did just sum it up!

I would say only time will tell. I don't think there is an answer that fits your question. It was not a good thing but it is not the end of the world, or in time you may see shyness/being timid and then attribute it to this one event. The biggest reason I do not think there is an answer to your question because you are the only one who witnessed it, you saw the extent, you know your dogs and you will be raising the puppies. If she lives in a perfect world from here and does not work out, this may be the cause, but it is no way to pinpoint it the same.

Best of luck with your pups. I have seen it with mine, separated them and can't definitively say it had a negative ending because of that gang-up beat down. Hope this helps. EWO

ok thanks