Floyd Boudreax quote I found interesting

"I don't think you can change a dog a whole lot after he is born. All you can do is sharpen his ability a little bit but you can't make him game. Now people say that it is a risk to breed a young untested pregnant dog. Well I bred SPOOK her first time in heat. She was never tried before, but she produced some exceptional dogs. I think it is like this. They have the genetic ability to produce good or they don't know matter how they are themselves."

I have maintained a very similar opinion as this legendary dogman Mr.Floyd Boudreax, but the funny thing is I am often ridiculed for saying it almost like being put in a greenhorn category. On the flip side a guy with the same opinion says it and it's like he gets a pass.
At the end of the day who cares what another says but I just read that interview and found that funny.

Theres folks that know then theres the cyber doggers who are all pros and are the ones hovering in the forums like sharks waiting for u to say something so they can pounce on you and be the first to show you how much they know and how little you know

Two trains of thought...
I think the key to this quote is when he actually made the quote. If he were a 18 year old FB who had did nothing in the dogs and had not yet built a stellar (life time) game dog reputation people would pounce on him as well. After he made the contributions he did, bred the dogs he did and built that stellar reputation along the way what he says carries more weight.

Secondly, and this is not a nostalgic plea for yesteryear, or a naïve perception everything was better/more honest back then, but...the internet has made it incredibly easy to peddle dogs. So when the next Johnny-come-lately rolls onto a board/forum and says he is breeding his female at 7-8 months old it draws out people's opinions, pro and con.

I look at what he did over time and weight the comment from there. After contributions over a lifetime his experiences say breeding Spook on her first heat was a great idea ( and history says so as well ) but I did not take the comment to mean it would be a great idea to breed every bitch at the first heat.

its easy to make an excuse to breed a young untested bitch when she already produced.

He is right ,the dogs genetics don't change with age ,but she needs to be of good sound genes all parents and grand parents and great grand parents need to be good dogs to up your chances .me myself like to know the bitch can hunt like her parents ,but some times you have to breed them young such as when an old stud dog is on his last leg .there has been a many of young bitches that have been waited on and died after a hunt and not have ever had any pups ,so there are ups and downs and I would say the ups out weigh the downs .always breed good to good .

I agree with you all, I guess the point for me isn't the heat cycles it is the fact that people are so stuck on putting the dog through a blender to prove its worth breeding as if it will make it a better producer. I seen another thread where some guy just wants to breed his bitch to a CH... I'm like wtf does that guarantee? The two simply don't affect each other. If I have a dog that I plan on matching then yes I'm gonna check it to the fullest so I know how game we are before I hook them. If I have one that I want to use for brood then that's what's I do, breed it, wait to see if it produces then proceed, simple shit man. Just my opinion, everyone reaps their own rewards Asa well as suffer your own consequences.

Well, "Spook" wasn't that Evolution. Her grandfather was a curr, her mother was untested. Spook's dam, Penny came from a male off Leo Kinard's yard, "Young Rock" he was a curr who Leo put back on the chain because he liked how he was bred. Penny's dam, "Peggy" was off a curr. And ANYONE who knows about Leo Kinard knows, he kept EVERY dog he came across. It didn't matter if it was good, bad, ugly, a curr or whatever..

And what in the fuck did Spook produce?! Eli Jr and Bullyson?!? Eli Jr was a decent mutt, but Bullyson was curr, piece of shit... Fuck they tried to give him 2 chances to scratch and the fucking cull stood the line both times and didn't even try to step out.. If they were TRUE dogmen, they would have put that mutt down right there..

People are so quick to make an excuse for a dog. "Blind Billy only lost because he got overheated", NO.. Blind Billy lost because his owner didn't bring him in good enough shape and he blew hot and didn't make the scratch...

I've known a lot of men who breed females without ever looking at them. I know some that breed them whether they've had anything done with them, if they've quit previously, etc. It doesn't really bother me whatsoever, but it's not something that I choose to do. There was a time when my stud dog was an elder statesman, and I had some opportunities to breed him to some of his daughter, but I never did because at that time, I didn't have anything I felt that met my idea of what bulldogs are. That's the main reason I don't do it. I want to breed dogs that are MY idea of what a bulldog should be, and I can't do that without looking at the dog.

Man you'd shit bricks if you knew the truth about every guy that kept a cur. Hell, I still can't believe it when I hear some of these stories because you think a guy that's had success with these dogs has achieved it "by the book" but man o man is that not the case with so many.

it doesn't really matter. if u want to breed the bitch do it. no1 has to feed them pups but you.

Everyone has theories, ideas, and beliefs.

The people who matter have their theories, ideas, and beliefs come true ... while the people who don't, don't.

Ultimately, that is the dividing line.

Jack

I understand the quitting factor. I understand it is easy to read about situations and form an opinion. I was once at a point that said everything that would not scratch at two plus hours needed the silver pill. With that said, looking back on something that happened 20-30-40 years ago and offering up the what someone else should have done/could have done is wasteful energies. There were a bunch of W's collected later because Bullyson did not get the silver pill. Midnight Cowboy. Honeybunch. Chivo. The ability to look past the obvious is an amazing characteristic to have in one's repertoire. EWO

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Originally Posted by ToTheDogs

Well, "Spook" wasn't that Evolution. Her grandfather was a curr, her mother was untested. Spook's dam, Penny came from a male off Leo Kinard's yard, "Young Rock" he was a curr who Leo put back on the chain because he liked how he was bred. Penny's dam, "Peggy" was off a curr. And ANYONE who knows about Leo Kinard knows, he kept EVERY dog he came across. It didn't matter if it was good, bad, ugly, a curr or whatever..

And what in the fuck did Spook produce?! Eli Jr and Bullyson?!? Eli Jr was a decent mutt, but Bullyson was curr, piece of shit... Fuck they tried to give him 2 chances to scratch and the fucking cull stood the line both times and didn't even try to step out.. If they were TRUE dogmen, they would have put that mutt down right there..

People are so quick to make an excuse for a dog. "Blind Billy only lost because he got overheated", NO.. Blind Billy lost because his owner didn't bring him in good enough shape and he blew hot and didn't make the scratch...

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Originally Posted by Black Hand

it doesn't really matter. if u want to breed the bitch do it. no1 has to feed them pups but you.

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Right!! Time will let u know if u made the right move it depends on your breeding program every one has different styles .
Like Mr WAC sd proven dogs % s shld be better and that's one of the reason's why Mr Jack made the site #s never lie. But still nothing matters but what that dog can do. And everyone does not promote lit up peds to prove success !

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Originally Posted by Wise

"I don't think you can change a dog a whole lot after he is born. All you can do is sharpen his ability a little bit but you can't make him game. Now people say that it is a risk to breed a young untested pregnant dog. Well I bred SPOOK her first time in heat. She was never tried before, but she produced some exceptional dogs. I think it is like this. They have the genetic ability to produce good or they don't know matter how they are themselves."

I have maintained a very similar opinion as this legendary dogman Mr.Floyd Boudreax, but the funny thing is I am often ridiculed for saying it almost like being put in a greenhorn category. On the flip side a guy with the same opinion says it and it's like he gets a pass.
At the end of the day who cares what another says but I just read that interview and found that funny.

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I agree with you both you can't change em. If you know your blood and have raised litter after litter of pups I believe that's alittle different than breeding an unproven scatter bred bitch to a male of the same caliber.So id take a chance on my program if i had to!!.. Floyd and Jerry both knew basic averages of breeding to Eli or Boze I guess but didn't know that old Eli was going to write bulldog history..There is no exact science on bulldogs or this breeding would have never been made according to text book standards... If that makes any sense....


With regards to the bashing you receive, online is the only place fools can speak freely and attack you for your way of thinking and never get off the pot themselves..I was given some very solid advice from from a guy on this very board in another fourm..His exact words were most of these guys don't know shit so don't pay em no mind wow how right he was..The bashing is a self pat on the back but how could anybody bash Floyd and not look like a clown!!! Some of us are fair game...

Well said. Especially the internet part. At one time it was difficult task to breed, raise, school, win and Ch a bulldog. It is as easy as all get out now. A few strokes of the keyboard is like magic. LOL.

And the first part as well. Raising litter after litter within the same family of dogs gives one a lot of insight in decision making vs. 'just' breeding a bitch on her first heat. It might be better said the important aspect of breeding a bitch on her first heat is Who? and Why? vs. just looking at the smaller picture of breeding a female on the first cycle.

Just like I said in the first part the internet is like magic. A person can be the 'baddest sum-bitch' on the planet with a keyboard. Forget steroids, performance enhancing drugs, working out, commitment, effort, heart, talent and ability, that stuff is old school. Just buy a laptop. LOL. EWO

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Originally Posted by sam i am

I agree with you both you can't change em. If you know your blood and have raised litter after litter of pups I believe that's alittle different than breeding an unproven scatter bred bitch to a male of the same caliber.So id take a chance on my program if i had to!!.. Floyd and Jerry both knew basic averages of breeding to Eli or Boze I guess but didn't know that old Eli was going to write bulldog history..There is no exact science on bulldogs or this breeding would have never been made according to text book standards... If that makes any sense....


With regards to the bashing you receive, online is the only place fools can speak freely and attack you for your way of thinking and never get off the pot themselves..I was given some very solid advice from from a guy on this very board in another fourm..His exact words were most of these guys don't know shit so don't pay em no mind wow how right he was..The bashing is a self pat on the back but how could anybody bash Floyd and not look like a clown!!! Some of us are fair game...

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Originally Posted by EWO

Well said. Especially the internet part. At one time it was difficult task to breed, raise, school, win and Ch a bulldog. It is as easy as all get out now. A few strokes of the keyboard is like magic. LOL.

And the first part as well. Raising litter after litter within the same family of dogs gives one a lot of insight in decision making vs. 'just' breeding a bitch on her first heat. It might be better said the important aspect of breeding a bitch on her first heat is Who? and Why? vs. just looking at the smaller picture of breeding a female on the first cycle.

Just like I said in the first part the internet is like magic. A person can be the 'baddest sum-bitch' on the planet with a keyboard. Forget steroids, performance enhancing drugs, working out, commitment, effort, heart, talent and ability, that stuff is old school. Just buy a laptop. LOL. EWO

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Excellent pionts EWO that complements my post thank you......

Boundary disorder is a tough one. You can skulldrug a gyp, win 3 with her, breed her to a grand champion rom dog, raise the puppy, school him, and match into a dog that was bred out of a one year old unproven bitch and a rank cur that jumped the box..... And still get whooped. That's just the way it is. Are your dogs better? No, his dog just proved better than yours. Now in due time, if he keeps these practices, eventually, naturally, his stock won't do so well, and he'll pay the price with a loss or losses. Or maybe not. WORRY ABOUT WHAT YOU DO! WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN DOG, GO MAKE A FEW GRANDCHAMPIONS AND CHAMPIONS AND ROMS AND DOY'S. BUT TO CRITICIZE WHAT OTHERS DO APPEARS AS IF YOURE LOOKING TO MAKE YOUR SELF LOOK BETTER GIVEN YOUR OWN STANDARDS IN YOUR MIND BY MAKING SOMEBODY ELSE LOOK BAD.

I was taught by an elder dogger, that a bitch is only good for the male winners she can produce and how many brood females she can lay. Take Evo's example where you can skulldrag a bitch win 3, breed her and lose to one that comes out of inferior stock. Well that can happen but like Evo said time will show who is doing right by his stock.

Well I'll add that you can skulldrag a bitch, win 3, breed her and she could be so damn hot that she EATS all the pups.

Now there have been a lot of very great bitches, fantastic even that can't raise a litter to save her life, what good is she for the breed or your stock long term. She's good for the hunt but that's it.

That's why I don't knock a man who wants a litter off a bitch before putting her to work, just to see whether or not she's good for breeding rather than knocking her against the wall for years thinking she's going to be the next honeybunch and she produce's sh*t or eats the whole d*mn litter. It's true that a bitch that aint been worked could do the same thing, but at least you know early.

Now breeding an unproven male, I don't think that makes sense, because well there are too many proven male athletes or producers for that matter.

Just adding a thought or two.

-ADM

Well said. very accurate. EWO

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Originally Posted by evolutionkennels

Boundary disorder is a tough one. You can skulldrug a gyp, win 3 with her, breed her to a grand champion rom dog, raise the puppy, school him, and match into a dog that was bred out of a one year old unproven bitch and a rank cur that jumped the box..... And still get whooped. That's just the way it is. Are your dogs better? No, his dog just proved better than yours. Now in due time, if he keeps these practices, eventually, naturally, his stock won't do so well, and he'll pay the price with a loss or losses. Or maybe not. WORRY ABOUT WHAT YOU DO! WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN DOG, GO MAKE A FEW GRANDCHAMPIONS AND CHAMPIONS AND ROMS AND DOY'S. BUT TO CRITICIZE WHAT OTHERS DO APPEARS AS IF YOURE LOOKING TO MAKE YOUR SELF LOOK BETTER GIVEN YOUR OWN STANDARDS IN YOUR MIND BY MAKING SOMEBODY ELSE LOOK BAD.

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What about the idea that the gyp will produce certain hormones when her life is threatened and those will add something special to her offspring?