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What up peps in y'all opinion where does CH Emmitt rank among the all time greats? In my opinion I think it's one of the most game and best producing of the Bolyes type blood ever!! I have the blood crossed with heavy inbred redboy and she is hell on wheels lol
I think when you look at the last 15-20 years, if you mention dogs who are all around great dogs or even just great producers. There has been a slew of dogs that deserve mention in the top Ranks and I'm not sure Emmitt cracks that top 10 of all time ranks but if you got from last 15-20 he meets it. Even when you think of last 15 years you got dogs like GrCh Awesome Beast who probably heads that list with Blackjack and Big Red and so on and so forth. I think if you narrow it to just greatest "Boyles bred" type dogs, Emmitt is top 5 but in my opinion he could be #1 if Ch Chino ROM isn't in the discussion. Even though Mann is the one who bred Chino, I believe most would call him a Boyles dog. Back to the topic Emmitt is a Ch for one, a true Ch and nobody is saying he was the baddest Ch to walk the planet but he definitely earned his rank. Then you look at his production, I remember when I visited SunShine state years ago and spoke with them boys. If not mistaken it was believed he had about 7 Ch's if not more. Not sure how great or bad his % was, but from what we had seen it was a lot more usable dogs then it was trash. When I say usable I just mean dogs you could comfortably place a bet on. As we have all seen at some point in time, you just never know what a hound is going to do on a certain night, but the ones we seen we felt that dog is worth a bet at least 4:1 ration. As well as the Champions he produced he had 3 GrCh Retard, Demon & Wacko (unfortunately lost his status) as well as one recognized ROM dog 44 ROM. Now just a question, to see if anybody else has heard this rumor, I can't say for sure who had started the rumor bug or how honest they were or what proof but there was mention of Ch Jethro ROM being off Emmitt. Again I'm not going to start that rumor up but a friend of mine, who likes Jethro dogs jokingly but with seriousness said to me that it could make sense but at the same time he said Sparky wasn’t the highest % producer and that Jethro was throwing the same way. When you got a good one, you had a good one, and when you got junk, it was a lot of junk.
I agree crazyred for sure top 5 boyles blood if not #1 and like u said the % of action dogs are very high no complaints I have bred her 2 time and over 50% of the pups love the action the rest are still hot themselves very happy with the blood but hv not heard that about jethro
I honestly never liked the Emmitt dog.
I lived right down the road from the guy who owned him, was given an opportunity to breed to him for free, but never did. Why? Because none of the dogs off Emmitt ever got passed mine in schooling sessions, that's why. Those dogs got out-smarted and beaten to the punch every time, except when Bandana spotted one bitch 5 lb and was on a down dog and in her kidneys in :05. Now I have to admit that bitch bit hard, and Bandana was bleeding bad, but damn, that Emmitt bitch couldn't take a forward step to a 5-lb smaller Coca Cola bitch ... and if they would have been the same size it would have been animal cruelty .. so thanks, but no thanks, to that blood.
The same guy owned Gr Ch Sparky, at the same time, and I did breed to the Sparky dog, as I really heard a lot of good things about his gameness. I only got one pup and that was out of Screamer, and the bitch (Pantera) grew up to be an awesome specimen of a dog.
As far as Jethro being off of Emmitt, no way. Sure they were both black dogs, but if anyone has eyes to see they both had completely different builds. Emmitt was a stocky dog with short legs and threw all kinds of dogs, appearance-wise (brown, red, black, etc.) By contrast, Sparky was pure black dominant and prepotent as hell in throwing "himself" ... and you could just see Sparky in 99% of his pups. Even the one bitch I got out of Sparky and my Screamer was a spittin' image of Sparky and looked nothing like Screamer. And you can see that in Jethro too.
Jack
WOW! now I have never heard anyone bad mouth Emmitt like that but there is a 1st time for everything ! Now I have heard not enough mouth and the size that can be fixed with the right breeding. Now how was that dog bred up u schooled with that did make the your cut if u don't mind MR Jack?Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
What is with the "wow"?Quote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
I was not badmouthing at all bro, I merely stated what I liked and didn't like, based on a year of seeing many of those dogs.
You're right. Mouth is easily fixed ... but lack of speed, timing, reflexes, intelligence, and deep gameness are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
Two of them were sisters to Ch Roy Jones Jr. One was picked up to Screamer, the other was picked up to Screamer's daughter (and Duke Nukem's sister) Athena Red. Still another was picked up to Misty Red, who destroyed the nose without getting bit once, and the bitch who was 5-lb bigger than Bandana was an outcross on the bottom (I forget to what). In fact, those boys were trying to match Ch Roy Jones Jr. himself into a Ch son of my Ruby bitch (OTC's Ch Tank), but after those rolls and going 0-4 with me, they never made that match ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
Screamer produced multiple winners for me, and so did her daughter ... Misty Red produced Pretty Boy in her only litter (of 3) who won in 2:42 then lost game to a Champion in 1:10 ... while Bandana's son Ch Vengence went on to decimate another highly-regarded Boyles dog (Gamedog Inc.'s Ch Soldier) in :42 ... without getting a single hole in his skin ... and then Vengence went into Openhouse and spotted a son of CML's Little John 2 lb of weight and Vengence stopped that dog in 1:20 (breaking his windpipe and finishing in the kidneys like his mama). So what may be "awesome" to one man, might not make the grade to another man's yard ;)
Now then, I know many of those dogs won titles, and some of them were very good, so I take my hat off for their earned record and nothing can take that away from them. I can only speak for my own experiences and what I saw. The dogs were solid in a lot of respects, but not in the respects I personally like most. To each his own.
Jack
PS: My Sparky daughter was a truly badass bitch :D
The wow was because u had a chance to use some dif ch/rom blood for free and u did not even do it to see what wld happen cld have made some of the best dogs ever but will never know. But sounds like you run some of the best blood in the world so I guess u did not need it. But u right to each is own I have my blood in NC,NY,SC,Fl,and MI and they love it!! But like u said each yard is different.
You're right, every yard is different. And just because some dogs of a line don't do well, doesn't mean others aren't excellent. Other times, what wins all the time "out there" against regular animals can't quite get the job done when facing a uniform yard of head specialists ;)
At the end of the day, I just didn't see a single trait in any of the dogs I saw that I wanted to add to what I had. Sure, "the cross" may have proven explosive, and it was explosive with the Sparky dog I did breed to. Pantera was a world class bitch.
I feel u broQuote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Good deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
BTW, I added links to the dogs I am talking about on post #7. I also forgot yet another bitch (Misty Red), who had one of those Emmitt dogs picked up in about 4 minutes over at NM's place. In fact, one of the "Super Crackers" was talking trash that Misty Red "didn't want to get bit" because she went right to the face and pitched her body off to the side out of the way of his bitch (a la this thread) ... but as soon as great gobs of deep red blood started pouring out of that Emmitt bitch's face and upper palate, he got that Emmitt beauty up out of there pretty quick ... didn't want to ruin the career of a "promising prospect" :mrgreen:
Anyway, I know the Emmitt dog has produced exceptionally well as far as records go, and has a deservedly-good reputation as a stud dog, but the offspring of his that I saw personally were only competitive if you agreed to swap it out with them ... but when they faced good, strong, tough head dogs ... they were pretty helpless IMO ... and when they faced my killer Coki dogs they were totally overwhelmed ...
Jack
I just picked this part out because just like the other thread and probably many before it this is true 90% of the time. I was once in loved with the Hagler's & Tyson's style of dogs because it was just impressive when I didnt know what i was truly seeing in the box. Then an old friend, who had retired and just kept a few around to school guys like myself would say go out pick out one, dont matter what size and bring your baddest one over. And no matter if it was even weight or his were pushing 5lbs, them strong, talented head dogs would whip the best of mine 8 or 9x out of 10 and I would be just clueless like I seen this dog whip many and now he can't get off a punch. Them Strong true head dogs will whip most dogs more times then not. Granted there are some freaks that get through but not that many. I hear people say freaks all the time but there is only so many Zebo's, Andy Capp's and Queen of Hearts that have come through the last 50 years. Might not be the most favored style but a good head dog wins majority of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Great post Crazy Red.
Aside from being a great post, an interesting note about your post was 2 of the 3 "freak" dogs you mentioned (Andy Capp and The Queen) were freak mouth head dogs :)
Jack
I know that when tbey bred brigades consuela to emmit, almost all quit. When they bred her to yellow2, ch. Crybaby and other winners.
You know I never even thought about it but yes you are correct. As well as most of the "Freaks" that people talk about, most worked the head at some point. From my understanding of Zebo he was same style, would hit kill spots but was very intelligent and would hit your head as well. I know Tornado was and I believe Art would do the same. No coincidences in that at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Yeah my bitch bee bee 3 years old has emmit crossed with the redboy and a bit of snooty and has a bit of the zebo on the bottom outcross so that wld be a dif type of dog than u schooled against mr jack and she has it all ! Now a lot of peps say take her bck to some more redboy but I think out the box used my male king 10 years old and past his prime but still will produce get calls all the time too stud him he is a head/neck dog 75% line breed bullet crossed with the snooty/Molly bee/Rufus type blood etc and 25% of him has the honey bunch and your vise- grip blood type blood threw browns. We call this a battle cross. They have 9-7 pups so plenty to work with ! Now some peps tlk junk cause he heavy Stoney but I tell them his name is king anyway works out when they under estmate the blood .
The Roach and Clyde dogs have been pretty good. I understand that the three dogs I have seen off the Clyde and Roach can't be the grade for an entire line but here goes...I do not see a lot of Emmitt in those dogs. Those dogs have traits and in the three up this way are a lot like the Mims dogs we see around here. The strain of Mims dogs in that pedigree were solid and threw dogs that threw dogs. Emmit was a solid dog himself and produced good dogs in certain breedings. I would not call him one of the all time greats as a producer but he was a solid Ch. who went into good dogs to earn that title. I like the way your bitch is bred. I personally would breed her back toward the Mims family. Check out stressless Wrangler/BDK Wrangler. This would be a dog that is bred similar to your bitch. Similar families. He has been a solid performer and his first couple of breedings look good as young dogs. His stud career is just starting but it looks promising. EWO
ps. Like in the other thread, best of luck with the breedings.EWO
What up EWO thanks u right the mims trait is heavy and thats a good idea will think about it but unless I a wrong no one else has one breed like bee bee and I know no one has kings cross he produced fine himself dogs like this http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...&dog_id=415703 strong , athletic, big head ,game, bite shit in half mouth dogs! Now the only reason y'all have not heard of him is be cause I just started showing his pedigree bout 2-3 years ago and the bitch I breed him to queen a good dog herself wld only hv 3 damn pups not a lot to work with her mom had 10 that was crazy! Any way these were my 1st 2 dogs the pups were good some hotter than other like always but they wld grow so big 10 nipples 3 pups milk all day haha! My mistake was I got alot of these pups in the wrong hands got one still honey bout 3 year old I will breed bck to king, I was younger then and now see it more important to place the dogs in the right homes than selling them just for the $$. I know few have have been put down for showing too much action in the wrong hands people who cld not handle the dogs just wanted a pretty pup! Like I sd my error! And peps liked the top but knew nothing about the old ace angles blood mostly only old vets did. So now I take more care and pride in finding the right home for my pups!Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
I think the two things that contribute the most to the failings in these dogs is impatience and being in the wrong hands. At times those two are one in the same. So I hear you. The key to the success of any line is where they end up. The very best can be reduced to nothing when mixed with ignorance. Best of luck. EWO
Amen brother!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO