What is Wrong with People?

I can never seem to be able to get over the fact that so many people in these dogs simply have no intelligence: they don't even understand the #1 Rule of Fighting, which is Protect Yourself At All Times :idea:

I was talking with Wildchild about the recent win with his son of Silverback (007), and how (after 007 plucked the dog out of his rear-end, he was only bit once more, briefly, and then never again). Wildchild told me there were a few people who actually said the dog was "a cur" because "he didn't want to get bit," as if being a wizard on defense was a bad thing :shocked:

It never ceases to amaze me how many so-called dogmen there are out there who can't recognize the difference between a dog being 'afraid' to get bit ... and a dog being too smart to allow himself to get bit :idea:

I guess some people think that dogs who "swap it out" are the Holy Grail of what it is to be a bulldog, but (to me) such dogs are little more than palookas ... like low level "tough man contest" types ... basically "tomato can" dogs that will never achieve a world class level of ability. Truly world class dogs are not just "tough," they are fukken smart, and no smart dog will just leave himself wide-open for the taking :idea:

No wonder so many people can never get off the ground as breeders: they simply have no idea what traits to breed for :idea:

Fighting is not just about aggression and "machismo"; it is also about speed, intelligence, timing, pacing oneself, the ability to read/judge your opponent, etc. Wide-open, reckless dogs with no defense may be "exciting to watch" for the average retard ... but they will ultimately prove to be cannon fodder if they face a truly world class dog ... and will quit (or die) to one 9x out of 10.

The simple fact of fighting is this: not getting bit by your opponent in return is as important to winning as is biting him :idea:

Jack

I think there is a very simple answer to your question and its never going to change: "haters gonna hate"

Let me get this straight, they are calling this dog 007 a cur because he was able to keep the other dog at bay, controlling the match and stoping the other dog. As R2L said "haters are gonna hate".

Hahaha been there done that. Jack you should be laughing with Wildchild when he told you that story. I remember we had a good laugh about why you're called Smilewiper.
In my opinion, I believe it's a good thing the losers are thinking 007 is a cur. With that weight, you know it's going to be hard to find anything for him. Now the haters will bring out another victim. After number 2, they're going to be ducking and dodging anything with Vise Grip kennel behind it. I hate to talk shit but damn if its the only way to get them not to duck, so be it. Quack! Quack!

It is easy to distinguish between the haters pit side and the ones who may actually think this dog is a cur (and I know nothing about this particular dog nor the name callers either so no insult is intended). If they believe he is a cur, and the object is winning, and winning means money, and everybody likes money they should have been calling his weight then and there. Or, they should be blowing up Wildchilds phone with the weight, saying heal him up and bring him out. On the other hand if no one ever dials that number, well, that is just plain and simple hating. EWO

Was the other dog picked up or did he stand the line?

Jack, you just proved my argument I was making about GSP when he beat Nick Diaz. B/c he's smart and GOOD ENOUGH to not HAVE TO RISK, he is a soft fighter to others. GSP takes little to no real damage, b/c he's smart and has "style" and intelligence.

So far, the best litter i ever bred was the one that produced AC/DC's Diablo POR. I sold him after evaluating him and his best brother. BOTH SUPER DOGS! However, the one I picked, no one, including Diablo could get him in trouble. The dog would walk the wall to get out of trouble. Smart, smart, smart. Had different paces and gears for different opponents ALL BASED on the opponent.

I agree with you 100% on this point.

x2 EWO. And that's exactly why you shouldn't bother because the people who're talking the talk are not the ones walking the walk.

I would be eager to proof it. But then again, if you win. You won from a cur :rotflmao:

LOL, i agree Haters Gone Hate. What's hilarious is that most of the "Best" or "Greats" never got touched much. If they did they either killed you quick or made sure you didnt touch them again. Tornado, Robert T, T Jr, Melonhead, Bolio.

Pride plays a big part, people let their emotions get the best of them and in doing so they become blind to what is really going on. I don't like 1 dimensional or picky dogs and prefer an offensive dog that goes on defense when it has to.

Agree with all consensus ...

I don't like a "strictly defensive" dog either ... I like an aggressive head dog ... who doesn't get bit because of his savvy/athleticism ... but who is either wrecking that face, or totally controlling the head somehow ... and who is smart enough to position himself in such a way as that he cannot be reached.

And if the time comes to hit some spots, the throat is my #1 preference ...

Jack

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Originally Posted by OGDOGG

Hahaha been there done that. Jack you should be laughing with Wildchild when he told you that story. I remember we had a good laugh about why you're called Smilewiper.
In my opinion, I believe it's a good thing the losers are thinking 007 is a cur. With that weight, you know it's going to be hard to find anything for him. Now the haters will bring out another victim. After number 2, they're going to be ducking and dodging anything with Vise Grip kennel behind it. I hate to talk shit but damn if its the only way to get them not to duck, so be it. Quack! Quack!

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Exactly.

And, actually, we were laughing when we were talking/texting about it :lol:

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Originally Posted by Ez Country

Pride plays a big part, people let their emotions get the best of them and in doing so they become blind to what is really going on. I don't like 1 dimensional or picky dogs and prefer an offensive dog that goes on defense when it has to.

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This is true. The Old Man told me ... when his dog Ch Robert T Jr. whipped SDJ Cover Dog 4xW Ch Indian Bootlegger ... that Danny Burton was there going on and on about what a "cur" Ch Robert T Jr was after the deal, and was just talking loads of trash ... to which The Old Man said, "Well Danny, I can see you don't like this ol' dog here, um, do you have anything his weight?" ... to which there was complete silence :lol:

Because that was the fourth "rough, killing 4xW" Robert T Jr. had stopped from making Grand Champion :lol:

Jack

I dont think that weight is hard to find, just nobody is going to want to get what he dishing out. The hardest style to beat is a Head dog. I think the most destructive style is a face dog. Even a defensive head dog is nasty, and will retire many good ones. An offensive Head or Face hound with good mouth is the worse thing a man with high hopes for a career trail can run into.

Well said. Saw a Bolio/Medlins Outlaw bred male once that was a very intense face dog. I mean right between the eyes, if he ventured from there it was across the top of the muzzle but back between the eyes. Kicker was he had below average mouth and his owner was a big fan of heavy mouth. I tried to buy him but did not have the cash at the time. This 'cottonmouth' dog with good intensity and a great game plan ended up winning three. EWO

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

I dont think that weight is hard to find, just nobody is going to want to get what he dishing out. The hardest style to beat is a Head dog. I think the most destructive style is a face dog. Even a defensive head dog is nasty, and will retire many good ones. An offensive Head or Face hound with good mouth is the worse thing a man with high hopes for a career trail can run into.

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

I dont think that weight is hard to find, just nobody is going to want to get what he dishing out. The hardest style to beat is a Head dog. I think the most destructive style is a face dog. Even a defensive head dog is nasty, and will retire many good ones. An offensive Head or Face hound with good mouth is the worse thing a man with high hopes for a career trail can run into.

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Right on point!

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Originally Posted by CrazyRed

I dont think that weight is hard to find, just nobody is going to want to get what he dishing out. The hardest style to beat is a Head dog. I think the most destructive style is a face dog. Even a defensive head dog is nasty, and will retire many good ones. An offensive Head or Face hound with good mouth is the worse thing a man with high hopes for a career trail can run into.

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The weight is not hard to find but yet you said nobody wants a piece of a face monster?
So you do agree with me that it's hard to find a dog that weight for 007 to pull with? Goes to show there are a lot of ducks in the pond.

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Originally Posted by OGDOGG

The weight is not hard to find but yet you said nobody wants a piece of a face monster?
So you do agree with me that it's hard to find a dog that weight for 007 to pull with? Goes to show there are a lot of ducks in the pond.

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There has always been plenty ducks in the pond. Some just blend in better. I dont agree it's hard to find one that weight, I will agree it will be hard to find one that weight once they realize who he is lol. But i also know down there they tend to run a little bigger than that. I know a few gentlemen who stay in the 25-36 range (including males). I'm not a fan of big boys 50+, but I have been able to see some good ones. I prefer the 28-42 range myself.

I know a guy who also has 25-36 lbs dogs too. He is always ready for action. If your guy or guys are interested hit me in the pm, and I'll pass on the word.

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

This is true. The Old Man told me ... when his dog Ch Robert T Jr. whipped SDJ Cover Dog 4xW Ch Indian Bootlegger ... that Danny Burton was there going on and on about what a "cur" Ch Robert T Jr was after the deal, and was just talking loads of trash ... to which The Old Man said, "Well Danny, I can see you don't like this ol' dog here, um, do you have anything his weight?" ... to which there was complete silence :lol:

Because that was the fourth "rough, killing 4xW" Robert T Jr. had stopped from making Grand Champion :lol:

Jack

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By no means, do I want to dispute or argue about any particulars pertaining to any convo I wasn't privy to. With that being said, I have known Danny Burton for a good long time and i doubt, based on what I know of the man, he's ever been speechless or backed down from any challenge under the sun. If you ever met the man, you'd know what I mean.

Again, I'm just saying, consider the 3+ sides to every story. The man has had some of the best that ever looked through a collar and I doubt anyone can pinpoint a time in which he "backed down" or was rendered speechless.

I'm sure different folks remember different moments, in different ways. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

By no means, do I want to dispute or argue about any particulars pertaining to any convo I wasn't privy to. With that being said, I have known Danny Burton for a good long time and i doubt, based on what I know of the man, he's ever been speechless or backed down from any challenge under the sun. If you ever met the man, you'd know what I mean.

Again, I'm just saying, consider the 3+ sides to every story. The man has had some of the best that ever looked through a collar and I doubt anyone can pinpoint a time in which he "backed down" or was rendered speechless.

I'm sure different folks remember different moments, in different ways. Just saying.

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I understand Burton is a man's man, but that doesn't mean he had the dog to beat Ch Robert T Jr. Further, The Old Man faced and beat as many or more legendary dogs (and dogmen) as has Burton, including beating Burton twice ;)

Oh I know Jack, and by no means am I disputing anything. It's just I know Burton and you can bet the farm if he had one that he felt could go, he would've been all in, no doubt. He's had some in the same class ( I know - this is opinion), with Floyd and Pit General.

Great Dogmen with cornerstone, legendary dogs. Makes for all types of great stories.

And BTW - to beat Burton and the keeps he was known for is quite astonishing and that's not opinion.

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

Oh I know Jack, and by no means am I disputing anything. It's just I know Burton and you can bet the farm if he had one that he felt could go, he would've been all in, no doubt. He's had some in the same class ( I know - this is opinion), with Floyd and Pit General.
Great Dogmen with cornerstone, legendary dogs. Makes for all types of great stories.
And BTW - to beat Burton and the keeps he was known for is quite astonishing and that's not opinion.

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The man I am referring to has owned and shown dogs that make Pit General seem pretty ordinary. He is the guy who went 2:48 witb Gr Ch Melonhead with 8xW Gr Ch Doolie ... he was part of the ATeam with Gr Ch Robert T 9xW as well as Gr Ch Tornado 10xW ... he went into Gr Ch Outlaw 7xW ... and went into Gr Ch Sandman 5xW, 5xBIS witb Gr Ch Zinc 9xW ... and has owned and been associated witb more Gr Champions than just about any "legend" in our sport ... and yet he has never turned in a single report since the 1960s.

When I asked him, "Why?", his response to me was, "Jack, I don't want the glory, I just want the money." 8)

Jack

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I just want the money

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pretty lame answer.

Speaking of which, why would you post something lame like that yourself? The man was a lifetime gambler, and bought 5 properties with his winnings, so he has a right to his own motives, I'd say ;)

Jack i was expecting some beautiful moralistic end of that sentence but it just said money :lol:
For me its still priceless. Wouldnt mind losing 3000 if i take home the win in the end.

Nevermind. enough respect.

I hear you, and trust me, when it comes to quality dogs, The Old Man would spend it to get a quality dog (if he liked it) ... and he would bet heavy as they come on the dogs he believed in. We're talking about a guy who made his living playing cards, pool, etc. for $40K a game sometimes.

He did some things in dogs I didn't agree with, but he also had extremely high standards, and if he said a dog was "game," you could pretty much bet the farm the dog wouldn't quit on top :lol:

Remember, the fastest horses are the ones with the most money bet on them at the track. Sure the trainers, jockeys, breeders, etc. all love a good horse, but their expertise centers around the ability to bring home the $$$.

The Old Man didn't give a damn about his dogs "being in a magazine" ... he wanted to have his dogs being good enough to bring home piles of money against anyone, anywhere :idea:

Jack

Quite the dogman. I find his motive to be much more respectful than wanting his name in a magazine.
You all him old and he's been here since the glory days, I'm suspecting he's probably 70ish.

Cool stuff!

He was 75 when I moved out of one of his properties back in 2008, so he is 80 now ...

When I asked him, "Why?", his response to me was, "Jack, I don't want the glory, I just want the money."

I really liked this answer. It says an awful lot in just a few words. There are lots of people who have success with singular purpose. For lots it all about winning. For some the winnings are more more important than the win. Winnings being money and the win bringing notoriety. EWO

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

He was 75 when I moved out of one of his properties back in 2008, so he is 80 now ...

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And if he don't go to kicking your ass, he'll just cut you up a little bit.

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Originally Posted by EWO

When I asked him, "Why?", his response to me was, "Jack, I don't want the glory, I just want the money."

I really liked this answer. It says an awful lot in just a few words. There are lots of people who have success with singular purpose. For lots it all about winning. For some the winnings are more more important than the win. Winnings being money and the win bringing notoriety. EWO

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And I never gave a damn about the money, it was all about the thrill of a win or just competing for that matter.

I have been the same way. Standing on top of a winner and knowing he would go for more was worth a mint. But as I got/get older I can see the point. I think it is OK if that is put out there upfront, its the goal as well as the measuring stick. Makes things easier. If a guy said I sell puppies to supplement my income. Then one would know what to expect. Lesser dogs being bred, younger dogs, cheaper foods, little to no accomplishments, profit is the motivation. As long as things are upfront I respect it even if I do not particularly agree. If Mr. Burton said it was the money then I respect him for putting that out there. And on top of that it explains a lot. That 4XW making puppies is some pretty good money over and extended period of time. That 5th, 6th 7th and 8th is more and quicker. Paul Newman once said, 'Money won is twice as sweet as money earned' or something to that effect. EWO

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Originally Posted by TFX

And if he don't go to kicking your ass, he'll just cut you up a little bit.

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LMAO, yep, he was a riot like that & would pull a knife & cut you with it too, no hesitation ... had a lot of fun stories to tell :lol:

Let them hate until they catch his weight and beat him the ones that hate don't even do dogs give me a defense tech any day

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Originally Posted by EWO

It is easy to distinguish between the haters pit side and the ones who may actually think this dog is a cur (and I know nothing about this particular dog nor the name callers either so no insult is intended). If they believe he is a cur, and the object is winning, and winning means money, and everybody likes money they should have been calling his weight then and there. Or, they should be blowing up Wildchilds phone with the weight, saying heal him up and bring him out. On the other hand if no one ever dials that number, well, that is just plain and simple hating. EWO

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Exact, direct and to the point. Your statement proves to be both accurate and logical. I’ve said this time and time again, “it doesn’t matter how talented any dog is, because there will always be someone out there who will have something negative to say about the dog regardless of how impressive they showed or who they defeated”.

The ONLY thing that matters is weight, and if those haters aren’t calling it, well then, let them hate.

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