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I recently had a long conversation with an old time dogman from the Penn area.he been around for a good time now the subject of starting up a prospect came up he said he would put a bowl of dog food in the middle of the prospect and the other hound he said this method worked for him for many years. Just sounded weird to me of his opinion on starting one up anybody else heard about this before or something like that thanks
Sure it'll work. You could use toys too. A hungry dog will fight for food. A high prey drive dog will fight for its toy.
Or keep a small dog around as a start up dog. There's many ways to start a dog up.
Or you could just wait a couple of months more and see how he reacts to other aggressive dogs, naturally
Just take him on the leash and walk by them or put him on the chain between 2.
If i want a dog to run on a treadmill on its own for 2 houres i'm not going to lure him with toys or food either.
As for starting up dogs in the pit i like to see my dog scratch for the other dog in his first roll, instead of the other dog having to bite him first.
A lot of people want to see signs or roll to early.
Im not saying it doesnt work, im not no oldtimer with tons of experience, just how i think about it atm.
When he 'acts' ready take him off the chain and walk him by. If he still 'acts' ready it may be his time. It is baby steps from there. The only issue with using an object to start them up is they may be starting for the wrong reasons. With that said, everyone knows an 'old guy', and everyone points toward the same goals but uses a different route to get there. I have never used an object to start one but that does not mean it can't be done successfully. And this may for my own personal warm fuzzies, but I like to think he is out there starting up because he wants to start from deep within, not an external motivator. But like I said, I have never done it so I can't say right or wrong, yes or no, or even good or bad. Good post and interesting topic. EWO
:)
Looked at your site AGK. Nice looking hounds man.
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Some dogs will never start if you wait for them to make the first move.
If you're going to use something for them to 'get jealous' over, a raw shankbone is better than either a bowl of food or a toy ;)
Jack
Don't ask why, primordial maybeQuote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
That is exactly my belief. There is something primordial about a bone, the predator's "dessert" after a kill, that brings out the predator even in puppies.
Toss a shankbone in there with 6 week old pups, and you will have a free-for-all in no time :lol:
Some of the better bulldogs i have owned where released only to be left looking up at me proably thinking
' Now WTF are we doing ' until that hog hit them like a mack truck some turn early on early some dont i do belive enticing there prey drive throughout there development by using a hide, tug a war, good old fashion chain barking will bring out there drive more IMO
RoughNeck
I have to agree with EWO on this one.
We start taking baby steps with ours before they are old enough to be touched so when the time does come the prospect will have it on his mind and a idea of what we are asking them to do.
We believe that just letting them set on the chain for 18 months or older can hurt you more than it can help with some dogs.
I like to do things with other dogs in front of the young dogs. I want them to get all excited and jacked up on the chain as a young dog. Sometimes they might not even know why, but when we come out that young dog is screaming, "Pick me, Pick me, Pick me". And then we go from there. Sometimes they grab another gear and they are off to adulthood. Sometimes they wish we had picked another dog. Sometimes it is just a push. The operative word is sometimes because all of them have their own time line. For whatever reason when it comes to these dogs the word patience is as taboo as a sexually transmitted disease. EWO
Another excellent post.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
What cracks me up is everyone is looking for "the one" answer ... as if there is only "one" solution ... or "one" dog ... or "one" scenario :idea:
The quickest way to spot a green dogman (or clueless dogman) is by their looking for that "one" answer (or what's THE BEST 'x,' 'y,' or 'z') :lol:
The more experienced/intelligent the dogman, the less he's looking for "only one" solution ... and the less of a big hurry he's in to see everything out of his prospect ... before his balls have distended ... or before his bitch has even come in heat ... and the more content he is to just let his dogs mature at their own pace.
Also, I agree grooming a dog at an early age (through socialization, exposure on the mill, watching rolls, etc.) will make said dog much more likely to "get it" when it's his time to be on the stage performing. That is a far cry from trying to roll a dog too young, it is not harmful at all, but merely exposes (and hopefully excites) him to his job.
Again, nice post.
The more experienced/intelligent the dogman, the less he's looking for "only one" solution ... and the less of a big hurry he's in to see everything out of his prospect ... before his balls have distended ... or before his bitch has even come in heat ... and the more content he is to just let his dogs mature at their own pace.
Well said. I like dogs that get better each time as they start and begin schooling. I am not overly excited about the fast starter nor am I disappointed with the one who needs more time. One of the mistakes a lot of new guys make is understanding that schooling is not a competition. There are lots of guys out there with dogs who win the rolls, or they put older dogs on young dogs so they (the man) can be the winner. Lots of potentially good dogs are ruined this way. The guy who is 'winning' the rolls very seldom make it to the show. The entire premise of schooling is to learn, not win. Part of schooling is being schooled and that means being on the short end of the stick. Working from the short end of the stick is the only way to see what you really have.
As far as starting I really like the dog who 'starts' at the bottom and works his way to the top not only in the little picture but the big picture as well. EWO
Frank Jacobs told me once, "son, you gotta be smarter than the dog." In most cases, with dogmen, the dog is smarter than the dogman
100%....my uncle used to tell me that all the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by evolutionkennels
You gentleman are correct there is no one way of doing anything because no two dogs are the same but there is a major deference in a animal who has been groomed from a early age with baby steps whatever those steps may be than a animal that has been sitting on chain for almost two years.
We feel that the schooling process for the animals is just like it is for us. Elementary, Mid high , high school than off to college.
I let all my dogs start in their own time. I expose them to aggressive dogs now and then to see if they have an interest. If they have an interest then I will give them a try once they are over 15 months. Had one recently that did not show interest until he was almost three years old. He was worth the wait!
We never make our dogs be something they are not. We believe you get a lower percentage of quality animals by doing that.
this happened to me by accident. Brother and sister, two littermates were romping around and she happened to find a bone just as he was approaching her. It went from wrestling around to dead serious in about half a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Ditto Jack. We are on the same page. LOL That is what I used. One won't fight over a fresh Shank bone. What will they get mad over? LOL I liked to walk a strange smaller dog by also to see if one would fire up and nip at it.. Then later the bone.
From there baby steps,getting use to the inside of building etc. Never take a young dog straight off the chain drive to another strange location and weight pull on another strange dog. Even when a young dog became more adjusted and did do another strange dog later on. Make sure same weight. You can not eye ball them and tell. You could be the five pound or more lighter dog. Schooling is going easy in baby steps.
Yup :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Hand
Agree 100% CYJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by CYJ
People always want to "judge" their dog, but they forget to school it first :idea:
No one would take their teenage son to his first boxing lesson against a world-rated fighter, would they? Nope.
They'd teach their son some moves, get him in shape, take him to the gym, and let him spar with clubfighters his own size first ... for a few months ... gradually showing the ropes to the kid to build his confidence. No father would make their young son's first fight a life-and-death contest, up 3 weight divisions above his natural weight against a seasoned pro ... and then shoot him afterwards if he didn't look like a million dollars ... and yet that is what too many retards do with their young dogs, and it happens everywhere.
It's a shame and waste of many prospects that could have been something in the right hands ...
Jack
nail on the headQuote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Perfectly said