DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

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Originally Posted by projectx

Evo i could care less if you and the rest of the folks on here think im retarded , but first thing is i think that its disgracefull that you find handicapped children funny and would post that foto even if its to poke fun at me, your just like that school yard bully who thinks hes the bees knees , but im sure anyone on here who may have a child like that would find that offensive and you and the others who think its funny should be ashamed of yourselves , i hope you never have one of your own then see how funny it is and maybe the fact that you posted that foto makes you a little more like the person your trying to paint me as evo . But secondly for you
and the others who might find that funny ,rather than try to make fun of me, why dont you smart alecks try tell me how you get a square peg into the round hole that is floyds story
and the facts regarding blind billy, this is after all is a thread about dogs with disputed pedigrees , or are you so
lacking in any ideas that you take the easy and curs way out evo but then i shouldnt be surpirsed about that i suppose coming from a man or men who would find that foto funny regardless of who its designed to riddicule , and what i would find far more eassy to riddicule is a person or persons who are entitled to their views just as i am , but when faced with facts that they cant dsipute with anymore substantial facts themselves to prove otherwise, would deem to riddicule that person rather than show thier own iron clad theory
that would indeed support that riddicule ,but of ocourse what we get is the bottom of the garbage in a person that can find it funny to post such a foto , maybe its more a true reflection of themselves .

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I never said you won the argument! But if the shoe fits...... WEAR IT. The picture implies that arguing about something as you have for as long as you have is as effective as Muhammad Ali applying for Barber school licence suffering from Parkinsons, NOT VERY REALISTIC. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I've listened to some of the Mayfield you tube videos, and if you ask me, the kid in the picture probably sounds more intelligent. Now, that being said, I vehemently apologize if I offended anyone by using that picture. Yes, I have a sense of humor, yes, it pushes the envelope, but I wonder if you read the fine print. This board is tired of your rants. You lost the argument the minute that you took what Mayfield said as FACT, it's not , IT'S HIS OPINION, and I guarantee he put his pants on in the Am just like YOU DO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

Projectx, I realize you are a Mayfield disciple ... and that you probably wear Mayfield t-shirts and say your prayers to Mayfield at night ... but please don't start talking to me as if "you" are now Mayfield ... because it really can't get much more embarrassing for you at this point :lol:

:rolleyes:
Jack

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.
Jack[/QUOTE]

Jack im a mayfield fan yes , but if you are also sinking to having to try to sheep dip me rather than if you are intersted of course in the thread, to maybe give me a more real world scenario that disputes the blind billy one that is not mine but floyds
own words, but so far it seems like the only disciples around here wear floyd t shirts along with huge rose coloured glasses
and believe me jack unlike many who think there so damn good i would never claim to be on mayfields level but no one on this thread is either , and what i find embarasing is a men on here who call themselves knowledgeable but put up embarasing scenarios to cover up for what is the truth ,that jack is truly embarasing, and for you to also think its funny to put up fotos of downs syndrome kid to poke fun at me, surprises me jack , we may not agree on much but i never thought you were a person that would allow a foto like that to be posted, not becasue of me but for anyone who may have a child like that and think that you guys find it funny regardless of if its to poke fun at me or anyone else , thats not nice jack
and your obvious taking of sides against me becasue of our locking horns once before is showing itself by the way you always pull me up about anything i say, but tell randy what a fair post he made,or say nothing when others insult me and worse, when randys words were an outright putdown of mayfield and quotes from others which adde no new evidence or theorys to any of the dogs so far mentioned, and he just posts as a direct way to stick the knife in again on mayfield ,and that is starting to look a little one sided jack and referee
seems to be in on it.

SO jack if randys sticking the knife into mayfield on every post he makes is fair, of course he always starts by saying WELL I HAVE NOTHING AGAISNT MAYFIELD , then goes on to character asasinate him but thats fair in your view sorry very fair, wow, well hows this for fair, two can play that game, as in my posts regardless of who agrees with it or not, i have made my posts based on evidence not just the man , but now lets play randys way shall we. A good dogman in arizona once told me that anything floyd told him he wouldnt believe , now hows that for fair jack , we can all say stuff out of context, that is just for a personal agenda, but neither randy or anyone else has offered a reasonalbe theory because their isn't one realistic expalntion with a shread of proof to contradict the facts with any certianty, but you and others feel in your rights to riddicule me yet with no reason other than having it in for me and maybe just like lots of untruths when we start to reveal them, maybe
knowing that once we start down the rabbit hole of truth , the fear of how deep will it take us is not something all men can face , it takes a little more courage than normal
to go that deep jack, but in the end its always worth it if one has a value for the truth.


Jack[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by evolutionkennels

I never said you won the argument! But if the shoe fits...... WEAR IT. The picture implies that arguing about something as you have for as long as you have is as effective as Muhammad Ali applying for Barber school licence suffering from Parkinsons, NOT VERY REALISTIC. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I've listened to some of the Mayfield you tube videos, and if you ask me, the kid in the picture probably sounds more intelligent. Now, that being said, I vehemently apologize if I offended anyone by using that picture. Yes, I have a sense of humor, yes, it pushes the envelope, but I wonder if you read the fine print. This board is tired of your rants. You lost the argument the minute that you took what Mayfield said as FACT, it's not , IT'S HIS OPINION, and I guarantee he put his pants on in the Am just like YOU DO.

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EVo first off im asking you a direct question based on floyds words not mayfields and the evidence we have for the blind billy and eli story do you as an inteligent man really beleive billy was sired by dibo ,and if so please give a better explanation to counter the facts we do have and not make believe scenarios .

Secondly you may think mayfield is retarded by that comment you made, but that again is just insulting a man who wasnt so retared that he put toggether enough stuff with the foresight to know thier would always be doubters to what he may say , and the audios certainly prove he was no retard.

THirdly you say im ranting but if you attack i defend , but others who protest just as vehmently that they dont believe it, are also ranting ,but with no evidence other than not wanting to believe the floyd the legend might actually have lied and stolen a litter frommayfield which he made a huge part of his and clemmons name from ,but you find that ok do you ?
I never asked for an argument, the thread is therre for people to talk about famous dogs who have had some doubt placed to their true breeding, and apart from a few people everyone else has either attacked me for putting my view forward onl billy, which i have my opinions on as others have theirs, but no dog talked about other than blind billy has had such a propoderance of the evidence pointing to a realistic truth other than blind billy, but even seemingly inteligent men who
should know better either started to make up fantastic scenarios to make it not so or just attack me by doing the old make
enough noise so that you distract others from the reality , which i have never done , i have argued on all dogs either for or against depending on the overall evidence we had including hearsay and circumtnatial as in tombstones case, but eventhough i dont believe gina was tombstones dam and neither did jack, i cant say she wasnt, and neither could mayfield, but on billy evo
if someone wants to prove the facts that we do have wrong then i will be the first to say ok , because im not bothered
as long as we get the truth if we can,and you wont find me crying that mayfield was wrong ,but so far on billy not one person has shown any proof to counter the proof we do have, so why are you all willing to attack me and mayfield when you have no good reason other than fear of the rabbit hole and how deep it goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

I can understand why, because it sets a precedence of the person being a liar.

I taped 3 conversations of me and Pat Patrick, a long time ago when I was a beginner, when he and I were on the verge of falling out. I was a green nobody then, and he had personally told me of the "true breeding" of so many dogs, that I felt this needed to be documented. So I do "get" why Mayfield would want to preserve on tape "the true breedings" behind some famous dogs. (Same as Bobby Smith got Pat Patrick to admit Ch Blaze was really off of Reuben.) I personally never made my tapes public ... but I may too someday when I am old, angry, and bored ... same as I did when I published Smith's tape when I The Truth about Mason's Ch Hammer :lol:

This doesn't necessarily make a person a snitch; it might be the only way for the truth to get out. I could likewise publish the tapes with Patrick admitting how Buck, Cheryl Tiegs, and Ch Chewy are really bred, but since I don't run dogs down from these lines (like I do Ch Hammer), I have never bothered.

Jack

PS: Ultimately, I agree it doesn't matter anymore, but it does make for interesting historical footnotes for discussion.

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I see all of that. Makes sense. I sincerely apologize to......well, nah, I'll just take this good perspective and admit, I can totally see this.

You guys have a great New Year

ProjectX You enter this man's web and twist and turn everything you can to make someone think you have stumbled onto the pot of Gold. It is a good thing that this isn't my web because your words along with the whole topic would vanish into the air without a stain left on this board. Your thoughts are not showing facts about anything. You rant on and on like your needle is stuck on an old 45-RPM record. You are like a child that was just dropped into a mans world with no idea of the past or present. How does your kind of people stumble into a real dog man's world. I am not assassinating Mayfield I am simply stating the facts. If I have an opinion about anything that deviates from your dream. You think I am a bad crazy know nothing person and so is anyone else that has a thought. I'm not sure if you can have any open thoughts a day. You think it, you type it, You believe it, so it is so. Like I said your one Lucky man this isn't my web. I might have told a thing or two that wasn't part of the debate about Mayfield. It wasn't to hurt Mayfield it was to show you he was a man and not a perfect man and he was far down the morale charcter chain for someone who should be worshipped. What we did was break laws for our entertainment at the dogs expense in those days. That doesn't make any of us a Saint. I always ask God to forgive me for what I was fixing to do when I fought a dog. Because I wasn't sure he liked me doing that. I have ask God many times to forgive me for what I done since then. Randy Fox.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by projectx

Nqk i completly agree that mayfield never had their consent, im sure they wouldnt have said the things they did had they known he was recording them , which actually makes the tapes that much more interesting and important, and he probably was paranoid , with good reason, but to call him a snitch , there you go again NQK full accusations with no proof as usuall you must like calling folks lairs but not even a theory on any of the dogs so far, just here to throw shit and hate on me and mayfield , well at least try to put up a theory if dont believe a man like i have done with floyd , at least it isnt just becasue i hate him , i dont but i dont believe him on blind billy, but at least i try to explain why ,what do you do on this thread NQK apart from insult me and look for fight that you cant win , maybe actually making a post about the dogs might be an idea to get you started with .

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Here you go ProjectX - You ready? Sincere, all the way. Since I don't know for a fact that you lied, I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologize for calling you a liar. To break it down even further and to make sure you all understand - I APOLOGIZE FOR CALLING YOU A LIAR! Sincere and all.

Now I would expect a "MAN" to apologize back at me for calling me all those tasteless things you called me now. Making accusations against my manhood???? That hurts and being a "real man" of honesty and integrity, I expect a full apology from you now.

Now, my contribution to what agitates you so much. 1st - For any man to have 400 recorded conversations with anyone, for any reason turns me away from that person instantly. Seriously. What is driving or burning this guy up inside so bad to motivate him to spend (in my opinion waste) this much time just to be able to say "AH HA - GOTCHA". Seriously. Nothing but this thread has come from Mayfield and his recordings. Nothing fruitful in any sense of the meaning. 2nd - You say calling him a snitch is doing so "with no proof". This is exactly what you are doing. You are calling people liars, which you don't like to be called, with no proof. Recordings of people saying things doesn't make anyone a liar, unless, you can prove who's on the tapes. If you can't do that, then you sir, "have no proof". So I'm merely doing the same thing you are doing. To take it a step further, to show you how nice and willing I am to work with you, I actually DO BELIEVE that it's Mayfield on your tapes, but still, me believing, you believing and everyone on this planet believing anything, does not PROVE anything to be a fact. So you are stirring a pot, as interesting as it might could be, with NO PROOF.

So, my contribution to your topic is not about the dogs as I have stated and will continue to do so, I couldn't care less about the breeding of the dogs you mention. It won't do me, my dogs, or anyone else any good to change the pedigree of the dogs you brought here. Even if you are right and the ADBA changes the pedigree - what was gained? Nothing. Nothing of substance anyways. No one is going to go out, put their entire yard down and start over are they? No one is going to build a memorial to Don Mayfield and proclaim him the most honest of all dogmen that ever lived or give him credit for anything other than what he's already done. He's dead as is this conspiracy theory stuff guys keep digging up.

I believe this a wasted endeavor - this straightening out of pedigrees based on NO PROVABLE FACTS! That is my contribution and since I apologized, I'll look for your apology since you set the bar so high and the standard for integrity.

Take care, hope you find what you seek and may the Good Lord bless you and yours in 2014

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Originally Posted by Foxman

You enter this man's web and twist and turn everything you can to make someone think you have stumbled onto the pot of Gold. It is a good thing that this isn't my web because your words along with the whole topic would vanish into the air without a stain left on this board. Your thoughts are not showing facts about anything. You rant on and on like your needle is stuck on an old 45-RPM record. You are like a child that was just dropped into a mans world with no idea of the past or present. How does your kind of people stumble into a real dog man's world. I am not assassinating Mayfield I am simply stating the facts. If I have an opinion about anything that deviates from your dream. You think I am a bad crazy know nothing person and so is anyone else that has a thought. I'm not sure if you can have any open thoughts a day. You think it, you type it, You believe it, so it is so. Like I said your one Lucky man this isn't my web/ Randy Fox.

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Randy you are a hoot , its hard to get angry at you that but for you to say that i am coming on here twistng words from you is like the pot calling the kettle black.I put the views that are out there regarding some dogs, of which we have all had our say, and we have even agrred to disagree on gina v baby, and i agrreed it could be either i wouldnt swear to it, but then we get to blind billy, and boom your head explodes because you or anyone else can make the hat fit can you, and you are
now trying to turn the tables on me to somehow try to make this whole thing go away just incase someone actually works it out and realises that mayfield yes mayfield was correct along with more than a few dogmen from your time randy who didnt buy it for a new york minute .Now im damn sure in your in website no one would get to say anything that didnt pass the randy fox seal of approval, especially any truth you dont like to hear, you would love ot silence me and others like me yet you proclaim that all you say when you post is a FACT wow randy how arrogant you are , and what facts did you say in your last few posts that had anything to do with the thread or any dogs disputed pedigree ? none you use your posts to rant about me telling the truth about billy and trying to make it seem like a crime , yet you have no proof to
contradict all the known evidence we have and floyds own words and timeline so im not saying anything that isnt known and out there so you might fool some people randy ,but its obvious to me that your not able to face the inevitable truth about blind billy and then eli which would mean your matrix would crumble under it .

I dont care if you dont agrree or anyone else, but dont accuse me of being a child, im the one putting forward the facts what are you doing but trying to put out a smokescreen but that gets blown away randy its built on nothing so gives nothing back of value , so when you stop your ranting and accuseing me of only wanting to have you or anyone else agree with me, thats not true, on all the other dogs, tombstone being a good example i have openly said that although i believe baby was the dam and you beleive gina was the dam i have accepted that it could be true either way , so i think that blows your talk about me only wanting everyone to agree with me out of the water.

But in blind billys case randy all i am doing is replying to all the posts directed at me but not one of you has given a realsitic theory based on more evidence (other than what if scenarios ), than we already have on both dibo and billy including floyds own words for more than 50 years , but that for some reason you want pretend doesnt exist and create a new story.

Your like the warren commision who wanted everyone to beleive in the lone gunman theory and the magic bullet when all the evidence that they hadnt destroyed pointed everywhere else but the lone gunman and the magic bullet theory.

Randy its always nice to know your so worried about me and the facts that you ar practically begging jack to ban me so you can rest easy , and that randy is the sign of a man who knows more than he wants to admit to , and a man who doesnt like a fair fight , but im right here randy make the evidence go away trump it with more than maybes and what ifs .there is more clear facts on billy than we have on any disputed dog in the game but you dont want to play ball , well i not here to convince myself, and if the horses dont want to be led to water well then they dont drink so i guess they stay thirsty.

By the way i see through your slick style you have of barbded comments towards mayfield in every post you make when you mention his name not just here but on every forum you are on, you use the old sheep dip trick of not saying outright nasty comments but constant negative things like how cold he was and how warm hearted you are to your dogs, but you dont say negative things about floyd or your friends do you then you use floyds commnet about his reply to don saying something about him Oh WELL THATS JUST DON trying to again create an image of don in a negative way just like you comment on thinking more highly of floyds as he was on a higher economic level than mayfield ,again all comments that had nothing to do with any dog story but were made solely to create a negative image of don trying show him in a bad light and floyd seem like a saint to push the eyes of people away from the only facts as you call them that we have which are the ones that show the truth
in this case randy , becasue if you had any proof other than your desire to make it true, by god you would have produced it in a heartbeat if anything that could prove mayfield wrong and floyd right , but i ask everyone to take note of how randy has never been able to post anything to do with billy that can disprove the fatcs we do have and that in every post where he mentions mayfield he always (after his clever intial i liked don comment) goes on to say things that have nothing to do with the dogs were talking about, but makes a personal sniping and barbed comments designed to assisinate dons character to make anything don may have said less believable even when its true , all i ask anyone to do is look at the facts we have and without making up what if scenarios , be honest either on here or to yourselves and understand what the truth is here and i think it wil be hard to come to any other conclusion based on the evidence and facts we have, that blind billy is not out of dibo and eli can then also be put in doubt and the high probabilty is that eli was indeed out of crybaby x cotton , and i am happy to leave it there guys, and as long as none of you comes back just attacking me for the sake of it i will not reply to avoid being called a ranter , but if you attack me and just make it personal rather than about trying to find out as best as we can how some famous dogs are bred ,then i will reply so please dont accuse me of ranting if i do , your post will be the reason i reply or not just remmeber that ok thank you.

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

Here you go ProjectX - You ready? Sincere, all the way. Since I don't know for a fact that you lied, I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologize for calling you a liar. To break it down even further and to make sure you all understand - I APOLOGIZE FOR CALLING YOU A LIAR! Sincere and all.

Now I would expect a "MAN" to apologize back at me for calling me all those tasteless things you called me now. Making accusations against my manhood???? That hurts and being a "real man" of honesty and integrity, I expect a full apology from you now.

Now, my contribution to what agitates you so much. 1st - For any man to have 400 recorded conversations with anyone, for any reason turns me away from that person instantly. Seriously. What is driving or burning this guy up inside so bad to motivate him to spend (in my opinion waste) this much time just to be able to say "AH HA - GOTCHA". Seriously. Nothing but this thread has come from Mayfield and his recordings. Nothing fruitful in any sense of the meaning. 2nd - You say calling him a snitch is doing so "with no proof". This is exactly what you are doing. You are calling people liars, which you don't like to be called, with no proof. Recordings of people saying things doesn't make anyone a liar, unless, you can prove who's on the tapes. If you can't do that, then you sir, "have no proof". So I'm merely doing the same thing you are doing. To take it a step further, to show you how nice and willing I am to work with you, I actually DO BELIEVE that it's Mayfield on your tapes, but still, me believing, you believing and everyone on this planet believing anything, does not PROVE anything to be a fact. So you are stirring a pot, as interesting as it might could be, with NO PROOF.

So, my contribution to your topic is not about the dogs as I have stated and will continue to do so, I couldn't care less about the breeding of the dogs you mention. It won't do me, my dogs, or anyone else any good to change the pedigree of the dogs you brought here. Even if you are right and the ADBA changes the pedigree - what was gained? Nothing. Nothing of substance anyways. No one is going to go out, put their entire yard down and start over are they? No one is going to build a memorial to Don Mayfield and proclaim him the most honest of all dogmen that ever lived or give him credit for anything other than what he's already done. He's dead as is this conspiracy theory stuff guys keep digging up.

I believe this a wasted endeavor - this straightening out of pedigrees based on NO PROVABLE FACTS! That is my contribution and since I apologized, I'll look for your apology since you set the bar so high and the standard for integrity.

Take care, hope you find what you seek and may the Good Lord bless you and yours in 2014

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NQK thank you for your appology albiet long overdue and looking at your post hardly well meant as you continue to try and make me out to be like you , when the difference is that you called me a lair saying i didnt have any tapes, which i infact did , so you called me a lair based on nothiog but your dislike of me based on our pms about things you didnt like hearing but you did ask me why i said it so i told you, and then you got all defensive and ever since its lets try to attack projectx
which resulted in you calling me a liar and then having to appolgise, when maybe it would have been better to just pm me and i could have called you and played you some of the audios over the phone , hell i might even have mad a copy for you .

Now i have not called anyone a liar like you called me, i have said in my view based on the evidence that we do have on blind billy that i believe floyd is lying but based on the facts we have and floyds own timeline and story, you had neither of those things when you called me a lair about the audios so its not quite the same thing at all, as i was infact able to prove i wasn't lying , but so far no one has been able to prove floyd wasnt.

Which now conviently you and everyone else dont want to see it as facts, eventhough the dobs and floyds own words havent changed in 50 plus years ,and based on those facts i have said that i dont beleive floyd and i do infact think he is lying, but i have done so not blindly like you did to me, that indeed would be very stupid wouldnt it, no i have questioned floyds version based on abda pedigrees floyds own story of the year he got billy and the very well, known and docunmented never questioned story of dibo and his life, which when you actually do a little research puts more than enough doubt on floyds version , but that is very different to you or me just blindly out of nothing more than hate or anger
calling a man a liar based on zero evidence of any kind.

Now mayfield made those tapes precisley for the reasons jack explained in him recodring pat patrick , to make sure he
could infact keep a record of the conversations so he could indeed have it on record if as an example when talking to maloney
he was trying to get the true breeding of tombstone from maloney or when hes talking to carver about pit general and indian sonnys involvement in that it was being able to understsand who was who and what was bullshit and what wasnt, mayfield said that the match with other dogmen wasnt only in the pit, he said that you can here the match in the audios as there is a lot that people say
that they say to tell you what they want you to hear and theres also lots of truth, and mayfield knew that, but i never said any of the audios were a fact , i said that it helps to hear them and then using all the pieces of the puzzle we are trying to fit toggehter ,we make our chice as to what we believe, and infact mayfield didnt breed to tombstone and sold him becasue he could never be 100% sure he was out of baby,although he felt sure he was , so i never have said that me you or anyone should take those audios as a fact, but more as a very intersting piece of gameodg history which if my few are anytihng to go by god only knows what other great stuff is on the rest of them, and im sure NQK even you who says he has no interest in long gone dogs , which is a shame as i think the more true pedigrees we have the better, but thats you and thats me, plus of course being a fair man as you claim to be i am sure if mayfield was infact elis breder you would not deny him that right would you NQK im sure you wouldnt like that if that happened to you, and im also sure that if you had access to those audios and were able to hear earl tudor talking that would interest you as it should ,and the man we need to thank for that is don mayfield he collected a libary of audios and documents that he said evrytime the indian sonny was at his place he always wanted to get into dons old wooden trunks full of pedigrees but never did lol , its a shame don is being treated like a nobody who has to compete with dog peddlers for some respect, when he deserves so much more from the game he certainly doesnt deserve that.

Nqk one last thing you say that this whole thing is a pointless endeavour , which in many cases is correct, do you beleive your pedigrees that you got from the adba ? (yes)then why doubt the dob on dibo which is not and has never been in question, billy was born in 1952 dibo born march 1951 and unless anyone can prove otherwise dibo didnt get to earls untill at least late 1953 or 1954 and theres never been any record of dibo being bred before that earls , so going by the things we can prove from dobs and arguably thestory of the most famous dog of the modern era in dibo are you saying that the proof is not there ,for in that case neither are yours mine or anyone elses if we want to call the dobs into question then why not everyones .

Now nqk i will galdly appolgise to you if you feel i need to, but first i think that i still need an appology without the follow on comments that is not an appolgy so when you send me that i will as a man of my word give you the same and equal courtesy ok .





N

Quote:

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Originally Posted by projectx

.
Jack im a mayfield fan yes , but if you are also sinking to having to try to sheep dip me rather than if you are intersted of course in the thread, to maybe give me a more real world scenario that disputes the blind billy one that is not mine but floyds
own words, but so far it seems like the only disciples around here wear floyd t shirts along with huge rose coloured glasses

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Without being disrespectful, I don't care one wit about Floyd Boudreaux either.
Never wanted that line of dogs, though I am well aware of their accomplishments.

I laugh in your face if you believe I wear rose-colored glasses about him or any other dogman.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by projectx

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and believe me jack unlike many who think there so damn good i would never claim to be on mayfields level but no one on this thread is either , and what i find embarasing is a men on here who call themselves knowledgeable but put up embarasing scenarios to cover up for what is the truth ,that jack is truly embarasing,

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Mayfield's level? WTF does that mean?

You can put Mayfield on some super-high level "above you" (on some heoric pedestal) if you'd like, but I certainly don't put him above myself, on ANY level, save maybe as a knowledgeable conditioner of dogs for his day.
On every other subject that pertains to dogs, from medical knowledge, to knowledge of diseases and nutritional information, to the knowledge of how to successfully breed one's own family of dogs, I am FAR more knowledgeable than Mayfield ever dreamed to be.

I do have a modicum of respect for the man as a conditioner, as well as for being around (and a part of) the foundational history for our breed ... but most of what he did is now considered outdated ... and there are too many levels where I would not want to be "like him" in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by projectx

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and for you to also think its funny to put up fotos of downs syndrome kid to poke fun at me, surprises me jack , we may not agree on much but i never thought you were a person that would allow a foto like that to be posted, not becasue of me but for anyone who may have a child like that and think that you guys find it funny regardless of if its to poke fun at me or anyone else , thats not nice jack

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First of all, I never claimed to be nice. I try to run a class operation here ... and I will not allow porn or vile nasty stuff to be posted here. I try to allow freedom of speech, so long as it isn't vile or abusive, and I think harmless posts like what Evo put are just that ... harmless fun. And, quite frankly, I agree with his gist: namely that you are the textbook definition of someone who lacks the sense as to when to shut up and just drop a subject. On EVERY thread where you've posted, you have ultimately turned it into an insane, never-ending digression of repetitive stupidity where you have basically had to be told to SHUT UP before you finally do.

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Originally Posted by projectx

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and your obvious taking of sides against me becasue of our locking horns once before is showing itself by the way you always pull me up about anything i say, but tell randy what a fair post he made,or say nothing when others insult me and worse, when randys words were an outright putdown of mayfield and quotes from others which adde no new evidence or theorys to any of the dogs so far mentioned, and he just posts as a direct way to stick the knife in again on mayfield ,and that is starting to look a little one sided jack and referee
seems to be in on it.

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I actually joined in on this thread in a positive way, trying to bury the hatchet with you, trying to let bygones be bygones, and I participated constructively on the first page or so.
(Go back and re-read the first page, genius.)

However, EVERYONE HERE has gotten sick of you droning on-and-on-and-on-and-on about Don Mayfield's theories. Every one.

You don't seem to have the sense to understand anything around you.
You don't seem to have the sense to let well enough alone and move on.
Time and time again, you digress into a never-ending diatribe of mindless stupidity.
Tine and time again, you have to be forced to shut up.

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Originally Posted by projectx

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SO jack if randys sticking the knife into mayfield on every post he makes is fair, of course he always starts by saying WELL I HAVE NOTHING AGAISNT MAYFIELD , then goes on to character asasinate him but thats fair in your view sorry very fair, wow, well hows this for fair, two can play that game, as in my posts regardless of who agrees with it or not, i have made my posts based on evidence not just the man , but now lets play randys way shall we.

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Randy is allowed to say what he wants, to an extent, as you are allowed to say what you want, to an extent.

Randy's opinion is more valuable than yours because he lived through these times ... whereas you are just a guy parroting "what you heard" on a video :idea:

This doesn't mean I believe everything Randy says, and it doesn't mean that I don't, but I *do* find his statements more interesting, compelling, and closer to what OTHER old-timers I personally know (who lived through this era also) have always said about Mayfield.

With all due respect, you are just a parrot here by comparison, repeating things with ZERO actual knowledge or experience of what you repeat.

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Originally Posted by projectx

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A good dogman in arizona once told me that anything floyd told him he wouldnt believe , now hows that for fair jack , we can all say stuff out of context, that is just for a personal agenda, but neither randy or anyone else has offered a reasonalbe theory because their isn't one realistic expalntion with a shread of proof to contradict the facts with any certianty, but you and others feel in your rights to riddicule me yet with no reason other than having it in for me and maybe just like lots of untruths when we start to reveal them, maybe

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Like I said, I could care less about Floyd Boudreaux also, and I have heard it said the only time Floyd lies is when he opens his mouth ... so what?
Heard the same thing about Carver too. Heard Tudor was a wife-beater, liar, and a cheat. Again, so what?

They were just DOGmen, not saints. Not people to emulate.

I would listen intently to what Carver had to say about breeding dogs ... or which dogs HE had that were his favorites ... and WHY ... and it would be of great historical interest to me.
I would do the same thing to what Tudor had to say about his breedings ... or which dogs were HIS favorites ... and WHY ... and it would likewise be of great historical interest to me.
Same with Mayfield.

But I would take NONE of these men's advice on what to feed, what to do medically ... and I don't need anyone's advice on how to breed my own dogs ... and I sure as shit wouldn't trust ANY of these men to be alone with my woman or to keep and feed a super-valuable dog of mine on their yards. Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

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Originally Posted by projectx

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knowing that once we start down the rabbit hole of truth , the fear of how deep will it take us is not something all men can face , it takes a little more courage than normal
to go that deep jack, but in the end its always worth it if one has a value for the truth.

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Oh please spare me this overly-dramatic greenhorn bullshit :rolleyes:

Other than peripheral historical interest, I don't give a damn about Blind Billy and his breeding, Floyd's dogs, nor Mayfield's. Has nothing to do with me, my goals, my bloodline, nor anything I can in any way control ... nor would it affect me in any way if I were still breeding my own dogs.

If Don Mayfield were to come here and start debating Floyd, that would be interesting.
Randy Fox coming here to give his $0.02 about the situation is interesting.

But "you" (a guy who has nothing to do with anything) repeating yourself and going on--and-on-and-f***ing-on about this shit is nauseating.

Jack

Here we go again, here is another monkey wrench in the spokes so to speak of. I am fixing to really throw down some good ole hear say. There have been several articles written on the famed Henry dogs that Tudor used. Not all came black, some came snow white and sure other colors. Probably the earliest articles just speaking of his dogs are the most correct.

One of the articles on Jack Kelley's site had that same type article asking the question. Why all the black dogs Boudreaux suddenly came up with. For as I am concerned only he knows, I certainly do not know and as of today no longer care.

The story centers around AKA Dirty Harry and Scotty Nelson. Seems Scotty Nelson was told by (I do not know who). That Earl Tudor bought dogs from England from I assume the same source that the Henry dogs came from. ( Note I am Assuming a lot here). LOL

That Tudor had some of these dogs on into the mid 50's. That he kept two sets of record keeping and registered all those crosses under the Dibo line of dogs. That most of these Dogs came black or black brindle with even black gums. Were said to be very rough hard biting dogs, but in some cases liking deep gaminess. What was referred to as those crazy, hot to fight, red eyed black Henry dogs.

Now if that is some of the Truth about Mr. Tudor's dogs and I myself am not saying it is. Mayfield trying to claim he has the purest Blue Blooded Henry dogs is still a moot point. Being Tudor supposedly kept two sets of dog registries. Who if any, really got the most of the Henry breeding in their Tudor dogs. If this be true only Tudor knows who got what.

Now on the other hand, knowing how most of the older family's of USA dogs are bred. I say if you want a Truer bred Tudor Old Family bred dog/with the most known Henry breeding in it. According to much more accurate pedigrees that the UKC has.

You will find the last old family Tudor/Henry dogs is in Peggy Harper's AM Staff dogs that lived not far down the road from Mr. Maurice Carver. I was sitting at the serving table in the Bowman restaurant with Mr. Teal/Mr. E. Skinner eating breakfast, many years ago. Something came up about Carver and his dogs. That is when I heard that if Mrs. Harper got one of those staffs that would not refuse to fight any dog it saw. Became uncontrollable.

She called Mr. Carver, and he came and picked the dog up. The Staff was checked out and if showed deep gaminess etc. Was bred in his stock of dogs. Now once again (hear say) and if done no one knows how many times.

I have talked before about Mr. Ralph Dailey's last dogs, who lived in Sumter S.C. From the talk about staff x pits being crossed from Mr. Teal and Egan. A. Howle and self visited this older dog breeder in Sumter S.C.. To find he had some straight Tacoma/Doyle Staff dogs and some Tacoma/Doyle x Charles Medlin crossed dogs. We got a dog and bitch off the Tacoma/Doyle x Medlin cross.

These dogs were black and white and turned out to be very good dogs. We both being rank rookies and thinking we could go back to that well and get more like them. Matched the male and he took his death while giving out a lot of punishment and receiving it. Never made a bad move proving to be dead game. The bitch lost her life in a five minute freak roll accident on my Ginger bitch off Snake x Tina cross. Died in a matter of seconds without a whimper. When we lost her was both very upset.

We borrowed money from the bank and went back to get some more dogs from Mr. Dailey. That well had run dry as he had died. His wife gave away or had the remaining dogs put down. Took years of dog papers and all the UKC Blood line journals he had and much more to the dump. Offered us no useable info., told us to leave and never come back.

One of MR. Dailey's straight bred Staff bitch dogs that was popular in the Camden S.C. area. Was a bitch dog called Foots. She had won at least two or three matches and was a very good dog. Very strong well built light brindle bitch with white stocking feet. Hench the name Foots.

Foots was bred to the famed Kelly's Willie dog and to McNeil's (Young's) Chuck dog. I saw Foots and her pups off Chuck on McNeil's yard. Went back later in hopes of buying a couple of the pups. Foots and the pups were gone and McNeil did not want to say who had them. I suspected their had been some paper changing to cover up the Staff breeding.

Was one Bitch off the Willie x Foots breeding that a Black man owned. He kept this bitch in ready to go off the chain condition. Beat and killed a lot of dogs brought there just to whip her.

So it appears that maybe Tudor and Carver along with some local dog men did or may have used some Staff blood up into the mid 70's or so. Probably not today.

Mike Ferris used a lot of the Doyle/Tacoma dogs and just maybe, (just maybe) Tudor might have as well. Instead of spending money to ship Staff dogs from England. I would think it would cost good money back then to ship a Staff dog from England. I did not get the impression that Tudor was a wealthy man that could spend money in that fashion. Once again only he knew. If there is a will there is a way. Once again if the stories and rumors be true.

So, see how I have added interesting true story's with some rumors or hear say that can not be proven today or back then. If one has well built, good acting dogs today. All the dogs look a like and not a Heinz 57 assortment of looking dogs. You are ahead of the game. Only one thing left to do some day. That is the oil checking/ culling process/matching process that will prove the real deal Truth for all to see and know. Cheers

Tudor didn't ever tell me he imported any dogs. I lived and was raised 10 miles from him. I think I know about as much as anyone about his dogs. There were lots of Henry dogs around for Earl to get from people in the USA. He liked dogs that had been tried. He didn't care how they were bred as long as he could win with them. He constantly took in new bloodlines. He was always adding new stuff to his bloodlines. There is a Amstaff called Ipso Facto added around 1965 to his dogs. He also got a dog in the early days from A Black man at Fox Oklahoma. The dogs name was Dillinger he bred the snot out of him. He was stolen from armitage. Armatage speaks of this dog in his book and the black man but not Earl. I don't believe Earl ever got the papers on that dog. In the late 50's around 59 they fixed it where you could buy liquior in Oklahoma. That killed Earls bootleg business. You don't see him fighting any dogs shortly after that or buying many dogs. Mayfield called his the purest of the purest but they had lots of bloodlines in them. I know. I was at some fights and tudor was setting by a friend of mine and his wife. Tudor kept staring at my friends wife's straddle. All Of a sudden he took his hand and rubbed her between the legs. She got as red as a beet and whispered something to her husband. He got up and moved her on the other side of him away from Earl. Earl went back to watching the fight just like nothing happened. I thought what an idiot. Yet he was drunk. I wouldn't have done that drunk in front of 150 people. He had lots of different bloodlines up to the dibo stuff including that Colby-Dibo cross called Lucky toward the end. Lucky sireds some good dogs. Lots of old timers are not normal. Bill De Cordova was the best most honest dog man I ever met. Jim Williams a lawman was not straight up with me. He robbed me bad once.

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Originally Posted by Foxman

Tudor didn't ever tell me he imported any dogs. I lived and was raised 10 miles from him. I think I know about as much as anyone about his dogs. There were lots of Henry dogs around for Earl to get from people in the USA. He liked dogs that had been tried. He didn't care how they were bred as long as he could win with them. He constantly took in new bloodlines. He was always adding new stuff to his bloodlines. There is a Amstaff called Ipso Facto added around 1965 to his dogs. He also got a dog in the early days from A Black man at Fox Oklahoma. The dogs name was Dillinger he bred the snot out of him. He was stolen from armitage. Armatage speaks of this dog in his book and the black man but not Earl. I don't believe Earl ever got the papers on that dog. In the late 50's around 59 they fixed it where you could buy liquior in Oklahoma. That killed Earls bootleg business. You don't see him fighting any dogs shortly after that or buying many dogs. Mayfield called his the purest of the purest but they had lots of bloodlines in them. I know. I was at some fights and tudor was setting by a friend of mine and his wife. Tudor kept staring at my friends wife's straddle. All Of a sudden he took his hand and rubbed her between the legs. She got as red as a beet and whispered something to her husband. He got up and moved her on the other side of him away from Earl. Earl went back to watching the fight just like nothing happened. I thought what an idiot. Yet he was drunk. I wouldn't have done that drunk in front of 150 people. He had lots of different bloodlines up to the dibo stuff including that Colby-Dibo cross called Lucky toward the end. Lucky sireds some good dogs. Lots of old timers are not normal. Bill De Cordova was the best most honest dog man I ever met. Jim Williams a lawman was not straight up with me. He robbed me bad once.

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Randy,

It's an absolute pleasure to have you here with us

I agree - awesome stuff. I was friends with Burton for a while and it was the same thing. Direct, "cool shit" from someone who knew.

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

I agree - awesome stuff. I was friends with Burton for a while and it was the same thing. Direct, "cool shit" from someone who knew.

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The Old Man I knew back in TN matched directly into both Burton (a few times) as well as Mayfield (once).
He beat Burton but lost to Mayfield.

When he faced Mayfield, the Old Man traveled to TX, and after the roadtrip to get there he said Mayfield continued to give him the runaround ...
making the crew first drive here, then drive there, etc. ... before the match actually took place.

When they arrived, the Old Man said Mayfield also had the scales rigged, and so (to make a long story short) Mayfield used a lot more than "conditioning" to win dogfights ...
The man who mentored the Old Man in the 60s (a local dogman named Paul Sweeney) faced and beat Earl Tudor 3-4x.

Jack

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

The Old Man I knew back in TN matched directly into both Burton (a few times) as well as Mayfield (once).
He beat Burton but lost to Mayfield.

When he faced Mayfield, the Old Man traveled to TX, and after the roadtrip to get there he said Mayfield continued to give him the runaround ...
making the crew first drive here, then drive there, etc. ... before the match actually took place.

When they arrived, the Old Man said Mayfield also had the scales rigged, and so (to make a long story short) Mayfield used a lot more than "conditioning" to win dogfights ...
The man who mentored the Old Man in the 60s (a local dogman named Paul Sweeney) faced and beat Earl Tudor 3-4x.

Jack

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Jack if the scales were rigged why the hell did he go on with the fight ? if he could prove the scales were fixed like mayfield proved against other dogmen then the fight would not have gone on , but thats the first i heard of mayfield rigging scales, but you get me more than hearsay jack and i will be the first one to say so not like others one here who never see facts unless its against mayfield so as they say jack show me the money, and it was mayfeild who found out about some other dogmen who HAD RIGGED SOME SCALES and put a stop to it, so maybe your man in TN just lost to the better dog that day , just like benny bob did to jimmie boots after being driven around for hours.

PS jack most all dogmen will try to get an advantage , whether its home soil pit size driving them around a while before getting to the pit or any number of things thaat they feel may give them some small advantage, like the one you mentioned about drivng around a while , well the guys who had jimme boots did that to bennybob , drove them around for 3 hours for security as an excuse , then they find out that the motel was only 5 mins from the pit.
Or keeping a dog hanging on the scale while checking weight is another one and if the owner of the dog allows it to happen thats their stupidty , but claiming that mayfield rigged the scales is maybe your man in TN's gut feeling maybe becasue he lost and like many men before him thought they coudlnt lose and so look for a reason why , even mayfield as mentioned on this thread by CYJ couldnt believe a female of his lost and felt sure she'd been rubbed but just lost to the better dog, but your claim jack like many needs some meat on the bones before saying it , weres the proof ? mayfield proved they were rigging the scales, randy probably knows the story of when mayfield got wise to it and put a stop to it, and its a known story of how theses dogmen rigged the scales and mayfield found them out, but weres your proof other than your mans in TN 's gut feeling .

Of course without knowing who this TN dogman was its a little harder for anyone to check on anything and a little unfair as we mention other men so we have an idea of who they are and whether they also have any bagage to go along with their fame as dogmen, but not knowing who your talking about isnt very easy is it , or what other fights took place that night ,maybe other dogmen who were there might be able to add their 2 cents , but that would need a little more info than your providing other than some hearsay from only one side of at least two possibilties jack .

How were the Old Man's dogs bred? Did he use one certain bloodline predominately? Very hard to drive that far even having a pound of weight advantage and win. The only way to deal with weighing scales you are not familiar with. Is to have a couple of varying Toledo US Certified weights to check the scale. The Old Man may have done just that. If just a few of you and a whole lot of them. You are not left with many choices if the other group chooses to work against you.

Was a three hour or longer drive to Atlas Brewer's place. Atlas Brewer's side kicks, then drove us around and up and down hill sides for a hour and half. Before our assumed match with him took place. Our dog did get car sick. Turned out it was Mr. Lonzo Pratt we were going into not Atlas. Pratt had been there at the show ring in advance with a rested dog ready to go. CA Jack we had one of those extra good Head/Throat dogs you prefer named Braddock's Mr Clean. Did them no good.

For any dog men that have not traveled to a far away State. With just a handful of you alls and a whole bunch of them alls waiting for you to arrive. It can not always be a pleasant experience.

V. Jackson conditioned a really nice bitch for R. Sweatman named Gold Pudding. Was into Irish Jerry's Pool Hall Red. Was a hard tit for tat match right down to the wire.

When the final scratch came up for Gold Pudding. All Jerry's fans came around to our corner. When Gold Pudding was released they went to foot stomping, caterwauling and beating on any metal object they could. Was enough to spook Sweatman's dog and stall her out. When Gold Pudding got refocused, started over to Pool Hall, she did not beat the count. Was using their referee and there was a lot of Georgia Hill Billy's there that day. Was only four of us.

Momma said they would be days like that. LOL You have to suck it up and move on to something else. Yikes!!!

I always played a radio real loud and beat two pans together and jumped around while my dogs worked on the treadmill. They were use to loud noise and didn't ever have one spook with my system. If anyone came over I'd have them jump back and forth and scream and do fast movement at them. Then have them back off and repeat that process. You would be surprised what went on in the pit in those days. Earl once told me he used that bitch urine a couple of times. I ask him how that helped him. I said they wash the dogs. He said I ddin't put it on my dog I put it on me. I'd put it on my lower pant leg on one side. Then if the other dog got my dog down I would place my leg by their dog's head so he could get a good smell. He said he had one dog drop a holt and turn away from his dog and turn toward his leg. He would put vicks on his dogs nose before the fight. Earl used something on his dog to help him win. He never would tell me what it was. Danny said Earl told him what it was but he never used it. He always had guys meet at Jim Williams house and Jim would call him so he could prep his dog before they went that 23 miles from Jim's house to Earls's House to fight a dog. He made the remark to me several times. I'd like to think Mr. Booth for that win. There was a Booth drug at Hobart so I knew who he meant. I ask Mr. Booth once what Earl used he got from him to help him win dogfights. He grinned real big and said who told you that. I said Earl. He said then ask him what it was if you want to know. Mre Booth told Earl I ask him that and Earl Teased me about asking Booth that. Randy Fox

These are great stories and very interesting jack, but they need a separate thread as they have nothing to do with this thread , including my reply to your post .

Maybe a thread called (GAINING A FAIR ADVANTAGE FOR THE MATCH OR CHEATING) ? or some such title, anyway jack only you can move post's inoto a new or relavant thread .

Ditto Foxman. We did too after that incident. I put a TV/VCR in my Building and played loud foot ball games etc. Some times the hard knock way of schooling helps a lot. LOL

In my town there was a dog man that had a deep booming voice and would get down by your dog and holler at him to let his dog go and quit biting my dog. Would holler at your dog when making it's scratch to his dog. Would cover his dog's mouth and head with his hand and arm if you let him get away with it.

Finally one time he was pulling this crap and had his face down close to both dogs. The opponent's dog released his hold to try and take a good bite hold on this guy's face. Missed his face by a mill second. He got right white looking in the Face. Look like he was going to pass out. From then on he stopped a lot of those shenanigans. LOL

I think this topic is about done far. I like war stories much better. LOL Mr. Fox if you wish, post something on the Tudor's Runt/Dibo story. Mr. Skinner told me about this back in the early 70's. Start a new topic. Enough has been said on this subject. At least for me anyway. Cheers

CYJ, Most everyone knows that' I think'. About Dibo being Runt for a while. I had a female who sure out of Runt and Dam was out of Dibo. So she was inbred on Dibo. I'm not sure why he did all the paper changing. Earl told me once if you want to be famous. Get you a good dog and put your papers on him. I didn't ever ask Earl about that Dibo=Runt deal. Maloney told me about it originally. I believe he didn't have the papers he desired so he used them. I still wonder to this day how Dibo was bred. He doesn't look like his ancestors to me but I think the last se of papers might be right, Because why would you change the first to the second set unless you thought the second was right and the first set were wrong. Project-X thinks we are straying from the subject. But proving the only pure strain comes from a guy that lies about the papers and cheats in dogfights, Is just part of the testimony breaking down Project-x' Dream. Mayfield also stole a dog from Fitzawater when after they made friends later on in life. Mayfield confessed. Just some testimony showing Mayfield isn't a God and his Earl wasn't an upstanding guy either. Earl ended up with several stolen dogs throught his life. Earl's own Brother -in-law Flo's brother shot him once. Earl had been shot five or six times. Does that sound like a God.

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Originally Posted by Foxman

CYJ, Most everyone knows that' I think'. About Dibo being Runt for a while. I had a female who sure out of Runt and Dam was out of Dibo. So she was inbred on Dibo. I'm not sure why he did all the paper changing. Earl told me once if you want to be famous. Get you a good dog and put your papers on him. I didn't ever ask Earl about that Dibo=Runt deal. Maloney told me about it originally. I believe he didn't have the papers he desired so he used them. I still wonder to this day how Dibo was bred. He doesn't look like his ancestors to me but I think the last se of papers might be right, Because why would you change the first to the second set unless you thought the second was right and the first set were wrong. Project-X thinks we are straying from the subject. But proving the only pure strain comes from a guy that lies about the papers and cheats in dogfights, Is just part of the testimony breaking down Project-x' Dream. Mayfield also stole a dog from Fitzawater when after they made friends later on in life. Mayfield confessed. Just some testimony showing Mayfield isn't a God and his Earl wasn't an upstanding guy either. Earl ended up with several stolen dogs throught his life. Earl's own Brother -in-law Flo's brother shot him once. Earl had been shot five or six times. Does that sound like a God.

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Randy i never said anyone was an angel and mayfield also wasn't a choir boy, but my dream as you like to call it is based on the facts we have about blind billy and they are the same type of facts you randy like to quote in your sermons about other dogs .

Now when i said we are straying away from the thread, it was about post's which have notihng to do with the thread like jacks one about scale rigging and mine in reply to it reply whichn is deserves its own thread otherwsie whats the point of
threads on a particular subject, yours adding some historical breeidng stuff is fine but talk off a completly different subject
that doesnt have anything to do with the pedigrees should have its own thread whichim sure you many ohters including myslef can add to without confusing this one .

Now as usuall randy you want to throw your clusterbombs at folks today its tudor, with only a little at mayfield , and of course we dont know how you roll do we , i mean your a stand up living and breathing saint arent you randy , but what im saying is this, yes we all know earl said lots of stuff about learn how to cheat etc and was always trying to get an edge, no one at least not me is saying he or anyone else including mayfield didnt try what they could , but with all your knowledge about the game randy which you have and in many tihngs i think you have no axe to grind , but i have tried to put as many scenarios regarding billy into place, and unless you or anyone else can prove that dibo was bred before he got to earls yard to minnie
and somehow billy miracoulously ended up on earls yard one year before dibo even left henzls yard id like to hear it, but not a load of what if and maybe scenarios randy actuall recorded facts like we have on both dibo and blind billy along with the floyds OWN words which i assume you not going to say hes lying are you randy , i think its a tough hole all the floyd supporters and mayfield haters are in , as floyds own words incriminate him and if hes lying about his own words that does the same, so randy lets stop trying to avoid the enevitable and admit it looks like floyd may not have been as saintly as some folks on this forum would like to have us believe randy and of course that would lead us to eli and that would lead us to MAYFIELD and that randy would break some folks hearts and collapse the house of cards that is the blind billy and eli cover up.

Now randy before you reply with your diversion tactics like you always do, try giving the good folks here more than just
some what if and maybe scenario and you heard this or that , what facts do you have, cos so far randy all you have done is scream as loud as you can about me and my words , but the fact is their not my words or even MYAIFELDS words randy their FLOYDS own words along with the dobs and uncontested histroical storys that we have for dibo ,and all the wanting
to change them facts to help old floyd isnt going to change them ,and i wonddr if it was mayfield in floyds place if you would be runing around like a jack rabbit trying to find a hole to jump into to avoid the the jaws of the dog , i doubt it.

Randy whatever your problem with mayfield is and i know were it stems from, thats fine everyone has a side , but when
you as you always do you like to drip feed every post with negative vibes towards him , when other folks say something positive you never back that up do you andyou never counter other negative psots about mayfield, like jacks scale rigging post, which may be true but may also be untrue as i think as you know everything about this breed that it was mayfield who found out
that another set of dogemn were rigging some scales and he put a stop to it, now im not saying that means he didnt riig scales himself , just as you or any other dogman may or may not have done soemthing who knows right, but you never counter to help mayfield you only either say negative tihngs mostly or chip in to agree with others or say nothing which considering your knwledge base i find astounding but completly in character with your modis operandai , so gang up do what you want keep telling us what so and so said and deny to yourself all you like, but its a shame that your dislike for don takes you to keep trying to cover up for floyd .

Randy i know you take this personally , but i dont ahte you but please dont treat me like a fool ,you may get away with that with other folks , but not with me, and we can agree to have different opinions and that i can respect from any man
just like your view on the dam to tombstone vs' my view , i dont agree but i can see how it could be true, as their is more room for other possibilties but no hard facts to really change the pedigree just words of mouth and other circumstantial evidence ,which one can make their own mind up to, but randy not with billy and the fact that you would atack me with such hate rather than stronger and more opposing facts to prove them wrong which i would respect regardless of our
views , but you cant bring yourself to do it, to be a sportsman to say ok it looks bad but i still dont think its like that ,but i can see how it looks bad for floyd , and that would be a man who can be honest even if it hurts , and someone who can
disagree but see your side of the argument when the arguemnt is hard to beat , but randy so far you have not been that man ,but i have , so randy i dont expect your reply to be any different to your others , but who knows its the christmas
period and they do say miracles happen at christmas time , but all this thread should hope to achieve is getting a little nearer the truth about some famous dogs with disputed pedigrees as best as we can ,and with that randy i wish you
and your loved ones a happy new year.

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Originally Posted by projectx

Jack if the scales were rigged why the hell did he go on with the fight ? if he could prove the scales were fixed like mayfield proved against other dogmen then the fight would not have gone on , but thats the first i heard of mayfield rigging scales, but you get me more than hearsay jack and i will be the first one to say so not like others one here who never see facts unless its against mayfield so as they say jack show me the money, and it was mayfeild who found out about some other dogmen who HAD RIGGED SOME SCALES and put a stop to it, so maybe your man in TN just lost to the better dog that day , just like benny bob did to jimmie boots after being driven around for hours.

PS jack most all dogmen will try to get an advantage , whether its home soil pit size driving them around a while before getting to the pit or any number of things thaat they feel may give them some small advantage, like the one you mentioned about drivng around a while , well the guys who had jimme boots did that to bennybob , drove them around for 3 hours for security as an excuse , then they find out that the motel was only 5 mins from the pit.
Or keeping a dog hanging on the scale while checking weight is another one and if the owner of the dog allows it to happen thats their stupidty , but claiming that mayfield rigged the scales is maybe your man in TN's gut feeling maybe becasue he lost and like many men before him thought they coudlnt lose and so look for a reason why , even mayfield as mentioned on this thread by CYJ couldnt believe a female of his lost and felt sure she'd been rubbed but just lost to the better dog, but your claim jack like many needs some meat on the bones before saying it , weres the proof ? mayfield proved they were rigging the scales, randy probably knows the story of when mayfield got wise to it and put a stop to it, and its a known story of how theses dogmen rigged the scales and mayfield found them out, but weres your proof other than your mans in TN 's gut feeling .

Of course without knowing who this TN dogman was its a little harder for anyone to check on anything and a little unfair as we mention other men so we have an idea of who they are and whether they also have any bagage to go along with their fame as dogmen, but not knowing who your talking about isnt very easy is it , or what other fights took place that night ,maybe other dogmen who were there might be able to add their 2 cents , but that would need a little more info than your providing other than some hearsay from only one side of at least two possibilties jack .

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OR, maybe, Mayfield was a fucking cheat....maybe, maybe, blah blah blah

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

OR, maybe, Mayfield was a fucking cheat....maybe, maybe, blah blah blah

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Hey NQK still waiting for my appology, but i see that your back to hateing on me via mayfield and bringing the thread and forum into disrepute with your posts all about attacking me and mayfield for no good reason and you dont see me going onto any thread you psot and jsut saying shit towards you for the sake of it but then im a better man than you and have some honour ,you on the other hand are jsut a boy who vcant face his truth but you will, and soon trust me . Well if mayfield cheated by rigging scales its the first time i heard that ,but anytihngs possibloe, but i see you only post when you can try to put mayfield down to get at me and never add anything of worth to this threads topic.

I dont suppose anyone else could be a cheat , nqk , i mean what about the guy from TN that your defending and you dont know whether he was a cheat or whatever you just chime in to try and put mayfield down, a man who won 84 times out of 102 matches, and an excuse for a man like you chimes in on a post, (which may be true just like the man from tn maybe a cheat right or anyone for that matter) and all you do is show yourself for the poor sorry person you are, just shows i was right all along about you, your not a man you cant even give a decent appology , well just keep your appolgy it wouldnt be worth damn coming from you anyway .

Hell i dont think even randy who loves to stick the knife into old don would have said such a dumbass thing like you did, all your doing is showing your hate to me rather than any understanding you may have, and whether mayfield floyd tudor or anyone did or didnt cheat by rubbing or fixing scales as their reason for winning more than they lost then their peers of which neither you nor i are one have been the judge of that, and you are one sorry sad person who out of hate for me becasue i told you something you didnt want to hear and thats all i did , you are now are on a selfdestructive campaign to attack me which is only showing you up as somebody with nothing of value to say on anything and your showing yourself up as a joke
with posts like that ,your so obvious its unreal, if you want to start a thread on cheating start one but do some damn research before you engage your mouth i find it normally helps .

NQK maybe hammonds is a cheat maybe? maybe your a cheat maybe?maybe were all cheats maybe? get a brain my feeble minded friend or see a doctor or better still try researching something for yourself for a change.

Now if you want to vent ,do it on pms , dont ruin the thread if you have to hate at least pretend by making a post aobut sometihng other than attacking me via mayfield or me directly and keep it to pms that way this thread can be of use to the folks that may want
to try to add something constructive other than an outpouring of bile ,take care and have a happy new year .

u dont have facts u have earls word of dibos birth which could very well b a lie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bolero

u dont have facts u have earls word of dibos birth which could very well b a lie

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Bolero then lets do this lets say everyone including you and me are a lair's and not take any historical or actuall words from anyone ever and start over again shall we.And if you can say why should we take earls or the men who bred dibos word for it, and all and any other timeline evidence we have and decide to not accept it, then why cant you say that about floyds words bolero? words that actually dont add up but you like others only want to doubt one side the side with a believable timeline over one that doesnt ,and if your not being onesided how come you have never once said that, maybe its floyd who is wrong rather than the overwhellming evidence before you, so i find it telling as to your motives for this denial..

Of course we dont want to do that, and we dont have just earls word for anytihng, we have a lot of words from floyd himslef, plus we have the actuall adba pedigrrees and probably the ukc pedigrees for dibo and billy and lets not forget all the other hearsay and circumstantial evidence while not being direct proof certainley adds to the facts we do have and
they show it to be a very unlikley that billy was sired by dibo, and bolero if you can find more actuall factual evidence other than what ifs and maybe's then im all ears and would welcome it with open arms, have a happy new year.

ENOUGH ALREADY. You are obsessed with this. The FACTS are Mayfield was not a good breeder peroid, if he were then he would have used Tombstone and Eli in his program he chose not to. Its sad now to watch you repeat the same thing over and over again, it seems that you hang onto every word Mayfield said. Like many have said what does it matter now? Just stop you are making yourself look crazy, whats done is done. Yis Ole Man

Project-X How old are you? Have you ever seen a real dogfight? Have you ever met a real dogfighter? Why is it so important for you to believe these rumors you keep saying? Did you know this stuff has been hashed and rehashed for years with no ending? Are you handicapped and secluded in one place and have no life? What country,state,town are you from. Do you have a College Degree? Do you have any Mayfield dogs? If so have you tested them? I saw Nigger quit. His name was Black Shine when he quit. Does that bother you? A.B. Forsaythe owned him at that time. He changed hands 6 or 7 times. He was used as a roll dog and bred three times that I know of when A.B. had him. A.B. made a deal with Jim Williams to help him get him. Jim Williams went to Earls and got a Dibo female and Black Shine. A.B. traded Dusky Jr. who was a bad hard dog for those two dogs to Jim to be delivered to A.B. Forsythe. Those two that A.B. Forsythe got were bred together and all of the pups quit. I got a male out of Black Shine and a daughter to Forsythes Jeanie and Forsythe's Dusky dog. His name was Crazy and he was a good dog. He whipped two top bred dogs but was plagued with red mange. I wish he was born today. I can cure that stuff now. His dam's mother died in a fight against Colorado. She was a game dog. All of Crazy's full brothers and sisters out of Nigger (Black Shine) quit. Blackshine (Nigger) also was bred to Forsythe's Jeanie. One of them was kept as a stud dog but the rest quit. Mayfield had several that were good game dogs. I'm guessing he bred up 10 that were top winning dogs. That is a poor average if you count all he bred. Kind of like the man said in the movie. Project-X 'Do you like apples? Well how about them apples? Please answer some of my questions. Randy Fox

:lol:

Ya know ... I am tempted to close this thread, because of the insanity of the digression, but occasionally some gems do come out of it ... as with the post above ... so I will leave it up for now.

Cheers,

Jack

Yea when someone beside s Project X posts lol.

LOL, yep.

Gotta give him credit for being game though :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

LOL, yep.

Gotta give him credit for being game though :)

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That's some funny shit right there.

Randy - awesome stuff man. I think alot of guys around my age would agree - we all was born about 30 years too late.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foxman

Project-X How old are you? Have you ever seen a real dogfight? Have you ever met a real dogfighter? Why is it so important for you to believe these rumors you keep saying? Did you know this stuff has been hashed and rehashed for years with no ending? Are you handicapped and secluded in one place and have no life? What country,state,town are you from. Do you have a College Degree? Do you have any Mayfield dogs? If so have you tested them? I saw Nigger quit. His name was Black Shine when he quit. Does that bother you? A.B. Forsaythe owned him at that time. He changed hands 6 or 7 times. He was used as a roll dog and bred three times that I know of when A.B. had him. A.B. made a deal with Jim Williams to help him get him. Jim Williams went to Earls and got a Dibo female and Black Shine. A.B. traded Dusky Jr. who was a bad hard dog for those two dogs to Jim to be delivered to A.B. Forsythe. Those two that A.B. Forsythe got were bred together and all of the pups quit. I got a male out of Black Shine and a daughter to Forsythes Jeanie and Forsythe's Dusky dog. His name was Crazy and he was a good dog. He whipped two top bred dogs but was plagued with red mange. I wish he was born today. I can cure that stuff now. His dam's mother died in a fight against Colorado. She was a game dog. All of Crazy's full brothers and sisters out of Nigger (Black Shine) quit. Blackshine (Nigger) also was bred to Forsythe's Jeanie. One of them was kept as a stud dog but the rest quit. Mayfield had several that were good game dogs. I'm guessing he bred up 10 that were top winning dogs. That is a poor average if you count all he bred. Kind of like the man said in the movie. Project-X 'Do you like apples? Well how about them apples? Please answer some of my questions. Randy Fox

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Randy hows these apples BLIND BILLY IS NOT OUT OF DIBO. AND AS FOR ME TELLING YOU MY PERSONAL BUISSNESS WELL THATS FOR MY FRIENDS TO KNOW ABOUT AND YOU ARE NOT MY FRIEND .

Randy nice try at another smoke screen asking me some dumbass questions that have zero to do with the thread, and again you avoid givng an answer that makes sense.I dont expect you to agree with me even if it obvious that there is certainly a need for some explanation at the very least regarding blind billy, but you cant even bring yourself to admit that YES THERE IS SOME FACTS THAT NEED EXLPLAINING as things just dont add up, but you cant even say that , but thats fine randy just keep on denying the obvious long enough and im sure you will beileve it and get others to belive it also.

As for nigger quitting, well i would not doubt for a minute that nigger may have indeed quit when you saw him , just as i have no doubt he didnt quit when D. burton seen him rolled into tiger dan ,but what does that have to do with your friend floyd boudreuaxs ped on blind billy ?


Anyway you and the gang here otherwise known as the braintrust have had more than a week to come up with a good excuse to prove floyd was shall we say mistaken about
blind billy's ped , but still only diversions and you and the braintrust can only make silly child like posts about me, mmm i wonder if you all put your heads together you may come up with an idea that holds water, just an idea from me i wouldnt want anyone to say i dont help you when i can . Now guys keep those blinkers on im sure your eyes wouldnt be able to take the light anyway so happy new year to you all.

I have a question Floyd got the dog from Earl so should nt u be upset with Earl? It would seem to me that Earl would have been the one to hang papers on Billy. All Floyd did was go off what was told to him. Randy makes a good point and yes i would nt expect you to admit to illegal things online but it does seem that you have very little real world expirence with these dogs. Again none of this matters now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ragedog10

I have a question Floyd got the dog from Earl so should nt u be upset with Earl? It would seem to me that Earl would have been the one to hang papers on Billy. All Floyd did was go off what was told to him. Randy makes a good point and yes i would nt expect you to admit to illegal things online but it does seem that you have very little real world expirence with these dogs. Again none of this matters now.

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Hi ragedog, at last your entering into the debate with some thought on the matter and thats good.I dont think i should be annoyed at earl as the evidnece points to billy never being out of dibo and as such earl never sold him the dog .
I put all thepieces in place that are out there for anyone to see if they look for it, and the whole thing doesnt add up
so if your asking me could earl have put false papers on billy, well maybe , but only if he had actually bred the dog in
the first place could we even consider that possibilty , but the evidence points to floyd never geting billy from earl at all.
As for my real world expierience, well just for you ragedog , i have been around the dogs since 1987 , now please as you have taken the first step towards debate please look at the facts then think it through and if you dont think theres questions that need answering ok but at least lets keep this dwebate on these lines not personallly attacking me for trying ot get to the truth ok take care .

Ok then why would Earl be so happy at Billy second match yelling and carring on? Also dont you think Earl would have said something when Billy was alive? I mean with historical info we do have Earl was alive and well, so to me that does nt make sense to me. If there was paper hanging that went on then do you blame the breeder or the owner who took the breeders word? You have dogs and been around since 87 then i think the most important thing is for one to be happy with whats in ones backyard i assume you are just like me. So in the end how Billy was bred or wasnt has no effect on the dogs we feed today to much time has passed. Yis Ole Man

I think I got this figured out. I'm not allowed to ask any questions that you can't and or will not answer. Yet you expect me to answer question that I or no one else can answer. Half those questions I ask you. You can answer without any consequences. You twist and turn to get out of answering anything. All you do is Rattle ,Rattle, Rattle on. I'm done. Randy Fox

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foxman

I think I got this figured out. I'm not allowed to ask any questions that you can't and or will not answer. Yet you expect me to answer question that I or no one else can answer. Half those questions I ask you. You can answer without any consequences. You twist and turn to get out of answering anything. All you do is Rattle ,Rattle, Rattle on. I'm done. Randy Fox

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Randy if im not mistaken the thread is called : DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT and considering that
i have been replying to your psots and from the very first one i have been asking you to explain the discrepancies in dobs and timelines for dibo and blind billy if you think floyd was correct , but you have done none of that so far, all you have done is come up with a half baked theory and now you resort to trying to turn the tables on me with posts such as this last one claiming that i wont answer your questions which have nothing to do with the thread , so if anyone is trying to turn the tables RANDY FOX its you, and if you cant or dont want to give a reasonable and non hypothetical answer feel free , but
i wont hold my breath for that to happen , and randy i knew you were done the second you tried your diversion tactics and trying to change the subject matter, maybe that might open some folks eyes on here as to WHY rather than argue the point on its merits like we did on tombstone .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ragedog10

Ok then why would Earl be so happy at Billy second match yelling and carring on? Also dont you think Earl would have said something when Billy was alive? I mean with historical info we do have Earl was alive and well, so to me that does nt make sense to me. If there was paper hanging that went on then do you blame the breeder or the owner who took the breeders word? You have dogs and been around since 87 then i think the most important thing is for one to be happy with whats in ones backyard i assume you are just like me. So in the end how Billy was bred or wasnt has no effect on the dogs we feed today to much time has passed. Yis Ole Man

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Hi ragedog , well if earl did yell at blind billys scratch , does that mean blind billy must be out of dibo? is that more evidence that actual facts we do have.Now ragedog for you say to me WELL WOULDNT EARL HAVE SAID SOMETHING , well first off if every breeder of every dog whos pedigree is disputed told everything we wouldnt be taking about it today would we, and also most folks just kept quiet and didnt say much , it was a few rumours and whispers back then more so than today , so lets say if i read you right your saying if earl knew blind billy wasnt out of dibo why didnt he say
so ? Well how many stories today you hear from 50 /40 /30 years ago from dogmen who knew but kept quiet ?PLenty and if earl even knew about it he probalby didnt care about it ,he certainly wasnt going to bother himself with that, he probably didnt care less about it, im sure he wouldnt have said a thing and many others woudlnt have either as infact histroy shows. Today rememeber we have everything coming out withtin days or weeks and instant global information, back then things were more word of mouth and stayed more local so what went down in texas or oaklahoma didnt become common knowledge all over america and the world like it would today with the internet .

I do agree that it doesnt affect the dogs we have today, but all of these dogs and many others that have become famous
and their owners along with them make for interesting debate, but blind billy along with the eli back story has some of the most compelling eividence we have on any dogs true heritage (other than one mans word against another which is what we have in most other cases ), in billys case we have the dibos dob + story which gives us a good indication as to when tudor got him , and from that we can take the dob on billy and floyds own words as to when he was born and start putting the pieces toggether and see if they add up , and thats without adding in any hearsay or circumstantial evidence to it.

I have put them on here a few times and so far everyone has decided to ignore them or make up other what if and maybe scenarios, which of course like anythng in life we can always find a scenario that however improbable
it may seem could be true , but in most cases the probable always makes more sense than the improbable and fits much more neatly also.

I hope ragedog that by looking into it a little more you will find that there are some things that dont make sense
and certainly cant be explained away by earl hollering at a scratch billy made , he may also have had money on billy or like many dogmen just love to see a deep game dog scratch and he may also have been a little merry from booze as aluded to by others ,so to overlook the factual for the many and varied reasons why a man might do something is invariably not the actual reason we might think he did infact do it for .

Ok one last go dibo dob 21 march 1951 billy dob 1952 even if billys dob was dec 31 1952 it still doesnt make sense although
possible if we didnt have a timeline for dibos life, and as far as we know and there is no evidence to suggest dibo
was bred untill earl tudor got him in his yard in late 1953 or 1954 which means that somethng cant be right.

Yes of course we could say WHAT IF HEINZL BRED HIM and never told earl which could be possible, but not very probable
because we now a lot about both dibo and heinzl.Firstly had heinzl bred dibo then how did blind billy end up on earls yard
for floyd to buy him ? there is no evidence that heinzl told earl he had bred dibo before and then decided to send him billy,
and if he had bred him secretly wouldnt he then have kept the dog as it would seem pointless to have bred dibo secretly to
then give away the dog later , which is why this possibile scenario like most others is one of those improbable ones
which always have to many loose ends and it doesnt make sense.

The fact is we have no evidence to prove heinzl bred dibo while on his yard ,and the earliest date we have for dibo getting to earls is at the earliest in late 1953 or sometime later in 1954, but even allowing for the earlier date and based on the actual facts we have about both dibo and billys timeline it would make it an improbable possibilty .

Now i will add this known fact which is before ELI came along floyd never had any black dogs but crybaby was one of the them ,and the claim is that crybaby and little cotton are infact eli's true sire and dam, as mayfield had put her on floyds yard to let her whelp as he was having some personal problems at home ,and asked floyd to look after her until, she whelped and then he would come and pick up crybaby and the pups ,and he hoped it would all be ok by then.

When mayfield called floyd to see if she had whelped , floyd told him all the pups were born dead , but when mayfield
went to pick her up some weeks later crybaby looked like she had been nursing but just left it at that but he knew
something wasnt right.

This was in 1965 and now comes the hearsay and circumstantial evidence to add to all the other known facts we have
like dobs timelines dibos known histroy and the crybaby story.

Well after eli comes along floyds yard becomes the yard of black dogs and two years later floyd show up with ELI at pitside and mayfield and others like leo kinard and curly hayes all asked mayfield are those the pups from crybaby, and where did floyd get the black dog from , and of course mayfield knew what had gone down at that point.

Floyd had also supposedly told leo kinard and junior bush sometime later that ELI was out of crybaby , and sonny sykes was also at floyds yard and seen crybaby nursing the pups and floyd had offered him a pup from the litter at that time.

Now if we all just look at the circumstantial evidence and hearsay evidence alone wihtout any dobs timelines etc and we
know for a fact that crybaby was on floyds yard full of pups ,then if we assume the pups didnt die then that alone would
in all probabilty point to ELI being out of crybaby x cotton and not blind billy ,which would then certianly put doubt on blind billys pedigree alone without any of the dob or timelne evidence etc.

Of course it might be also possible that the pups did infact die and floyd never told leo kinard or junior bush some time later that ELI was out of crybaby x cotton or that sonny sykes ever saw crybaby nursing pups ,eventhough considering
the aftermath that ELI created and how floyds yard which upto that time had never had black dogs and he had billy since the 50s but in reality it was only after ELIS arrival that floyds yard became black even if the peds on lots of other supposed blind billy offspring show otherwsie the game knew of floyds yard and it wasnt the yard of black dogs before ELi came along.

So just the hearsay and circumstantial evidence alone points more towards crybaby x cotton, but i also agree there is also the chance it isn't.

But now if you take the full facts as we know them to be true includng dobs for dibo and blind billy plus dibos known story
and timeline and known breding history plus crybaby full of pups, then add in if you actually need to the hearsay and circumstantial evidence and i think its the most obvious and overwhelming evidence on any dog with a dsiputed pedigree
we have yet to see , and i dont expect any of you to agree with me because i say its so, but because the evidence both
factual and circumstantial points to it .

I would hope that the least any of you would do is to weigh up the possibilty that indeed blind billy has some doubts as does ELI's and i hope that looking at all the evidence both the probable and improbable circumstantial and hearsay along with
the actual known facts we do have ,that you will give it and me a fair and honest hearing without prejudice.

Happy new year and may it be a good one for all of you .

Bullshit aside you do make very good points but the truth is there are a million things that could of took place. But hey its possible it really is. Happy New Year Ole Man D.M.D.K

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ragedog10

Bullshit aside you do make very good points but the truth is there are a million things that could of took place. But hey its possible it really is. Happy New Year Ole Man D.M.D.K

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Hi ragedog what bullshit aside? the bullshit if there is any would be in the maybe what if improbable scenarios i outlined
not in the actual known facts , theres no bullshit in those .

And theres really not many outcomes certainley not a million, if you look at the overalll picture and go with the what is the probable truth based on all the facts we have and what makes sense, but at least your starting to see what is there now
and thtas all i can ask for take care.