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My apologies if you were offended. It was not meant in that manner. You posted a pedigree, you asked about a certain faction of that pedigree and then at the end of the post you said any info will help. I went with that. No harm intended. The Stoney dog was up here and Mr. Edwards made the call. He was bred to the best bitches going and produced nothing. The bitches had produced and continued to produce with other dogs. As I said, I am amazed Minnie carried that as far as she did with Sabotage and even Grunt, although Grunt was on a downward spiral until he was sold. As far as the bottom side I was referring to the Boyles/Mims crossed dogs in the bottom. Both of those families have stood the test of time. They have performed and produced not only with their creators but others as well. The Cotton Bullet line has made its mark as well just not that particular strain. This is based on personal knowledge, not what I was told or what I read on another board.
I apologize if you were offended by the Jump Around/Stoney references. But when you post a pedigree and say any info will help you should accept what you get, factor it in and go from there, both the good and the bad. As I said, my apologies if you were offended by information you asked for in the original post. Best of luck to you and your dogs. EWO
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Thanks Ewo and u right u seem to know your stuff keep it coming but when u called it shit that was a bit much that's all it all good!! Just wonder way u did not tlk bout the other 75% in king ped that's all man we good thanks!! Your opinion is always welcome !!! Only been dealing with this breed bout 10 years so I don't know it all man.
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You asked about breeding the Cotton Bullet stuff back into this pedigree. I did not speak about the other lines involved other than the Emmit and Mims blood. If you go back in the pedigree a ways you will see Pernells Red Baron. One of the gamest dogs anyone would ever see. His owner, TP, heard numerous times, "Why don't you pick him up now?". This dog may have originated the term skull drug but he kept coming time and time again. That too was a family of low percentage dogs but when one worked out you could ride up and down the road with anyone. The Hargrove stuff way back is as nice as any. But it is way back. The dogs/families I mentioned have a much more firm base over time. The Stoney dogs did not. Is it possible for you to get a good Stoney influenced dog after a few generations of nothing, absolutely. Do I think the odds are in one's favor to keep breeding that particular strain of Bullet blood straight or even back into an existing dog? I just don't think it will work over time. I brought up Sabotage because she was a bulldog in a bulldog camp. her pedigree had a plan. Work and scratch from the bottom and bite from the top. It worked. The Grunt dog took more form the topside thus he moved from camp to camp til he ended up with a peddler.
Like I said it was no insult intended. I believe if you are going to breed that particular dog to a line already there it should be to the dogs who have stood the test of time on multiple yards. Odds are you will get hard mouthed dogs that will work all night which is a tough combination to beat. EWO
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Good info like I sd u know your stuff I know bout Red Baron but the ped not lit up so most will not unless they dogmen and devil dog dau of Rufus/Copy girl has produced http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...e&dog_id=75597 and don't forget the Dawnrest/browns cross! Now you keep saying way back I don't consider 4th and 5th gen way back when inbred or line bred. Woods redboy is Red Baron and devil dawgs grand son and king is bout 40% him. And you can't forget the line bred Snooty or Molly bee blood maybe the best dog to ever to live line bred all though the bottom! Even the out cross Zelda-Roo http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...&dog_id=106849 has some good old blood
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To me after 6 gen that cld be way bck if want to go with just 4 gen fine but don't u hv to see where the blood comes from in the 4th gen? when u line bred or inbred the blood comes up! Or is suppose too. Haha and the bottom is very tight bringing the red dog blood up http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...ee&dog_id=1584 king is 75% line bred red dog type blood. And Stoney's parents blood has proven well! King is not Stoney just using his blood from him and his parents. Now my ? To u EWO is why would real dog men like Woods/Wilders (better than most wld ever be) be crossing and inbreeding that blood if it was not working for them?? I for one don't think they wld waste ther time and name like that for no reason do u?
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One of the things I truly believe but do not feel comfortable talking about because it can get disrespectful in a hurry. Odds are Mr. Edwards took Molly Bee's true breeding to the grave with him. There are a few different versions of her pedigree that depending on who you are talking to is carved in stone to each of them. The Woods and Wilders as well as many others were in competition with each other as well as everyone else. I say this with the utmost of respect, a lot of dogs back then in that era/area are not as they are represented. This is why it is nearly impossible to make breedings today based on what papers say from yesterday. All it takes is one dog to be misrepresented and the variables, which are vast anyway, start multiplying exponentially.
If you and I were in direct as well as indirect competition and I was doing A-B-C and winning consistently and producing consistently I may show you A-B-C as B-C-D. Without that third of the puzzle you may beat me but you will not do it with with the same pieces of the puzzle I am working with. And the second generation with that missing third piece you are out in left field for quite some time. Now I am not a conspiracy theorist or anything like that, I just believe when winning is the ultimate goal laying a false trail is an easy way to get out ahead. A reputation as a winner carries far more weight to me than maybe someone didn't want everyone to know the secret recipe. It was a part of the game. And as far as Woods and Wilder, as well as others, as long as you called them a winner I doubt they really cared what one called them after "winner". EWO
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Not to start one of those "best quotes" threads but here is one of my favorites. This was told to me by a guy who did dogs before I was born. He said the only way to tell how a dog is really bred is after he wins three or four or five and then produces three or four good ones. After that there is always "somebody" who knows how he or she is really bred. It is part of the game. EWO
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I see what u mean and your opinion is fine all I can go on is my BFKC/ADBA papers in hand man and I am sure you cld and do say that about a lot of papers but my dogs and pups are fine dogs the papers do them no justice to say the least and I will breed them both ways and time will tell which blood is carring who and we will know in a few. But as long and both are good how can u complain u know
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Without a doubt. The truest test is always time. Regardless which way you go, or which way I think you should go, the only real test is time. Best of luck with you, the dogs and your decisions. Time will tell. EWO
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