Conditioning a dog UP TO WEIGHT??

http://i.imgur.com/6WIkD.jpg
5 days out. Started her at 35 half she's right on weight at 37
Screaming IcePick(Screaming Icon/Ch IcePick) bitch

Looks good. Good luck!

Good lookin bitch OGDOGG.

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Originally Posted by OGDOGG

http://i.imgur.com/6WIkD.jpg
5 days out. Started her at 35 half she's right on weight at 37
Screaming IcePick(Screaming Icon/Ch IcePick) bitch

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She is a very pretty bitch, beautiful, but to be perfectly honest she looks a little dry/flat/listless to me.

It is hard to tell from a photo though, and the lighting is bad, so maybe she is just real mellow.
The reason I say this is because she's not even at the full end of her chain.
I can't think of too many dogs I have photographed that aren't fully at the end of their chain, leaning into it.
She is supposedly in top form, and yet isn't even enthusiastic enough to get to the full-end of her chain.

Also, shame on you for using a cheap bullsnap and not a swivel; that is how dogs die in kennel wrecks :angry:

Not trying to be over-critical, but you posted a photo as an example of bringing a dog under, and then back up, and to be perfectly honest your bitch is just "standing there" and it looks like she has no pizzazz to her whatsoever, which is what I would expect from that style of conditioning: a flat dog.

Just being perfectly honest with you sir.

Jack

Looks good OGDOGG, good luck to ya.

Thanks skipper,Nash, and Top shelf. "She is a very pretty bitch, beautiful, but to be perfectly honest she looks a little dry/flat/listless to me" Thanks; shes a good looking and well structured animal but she is not dry. I would never bring my dogs in dry. Her skin count is half a second. But yes she does look exhausted due to us just got done walking for 3 hours(12 mile walk)then had her on what i call a quicky(cable run) area for my dogs to empty. "It is hard to tell from a photo though, and the lighting is bad, so maybe she is just real mellow" yes she is a very mellow dog some what timid at times when I raise my voice but a beast in the box. Her sister
http://i.imgur.com/1Wii1.jpg is the opposite, outgoing and very vocal and intense."Also, shame on you for using a cheap bullsnap and not a swivel; that is how dogs die in kennel wrecks" That is a quicky as I call it. She is my house dog and stays inside of the house. My outside dogs have set ups like the ones from your book(where I got it from)"Not trying to be over-critical, but you posted a photo as an example of bringing a dog under, and then back up, and to be perfectly honest your bitch is just "standing there" and it looks like she has no pizzazz to her whatsoever, which is what I would expect from that style of conditioning: a flat dog." I don't mind being criticize cause it'll only make me better. Yes she does look a little drained out but 4 days of rest will make her feel a lot better.

Yes, it was definitely just honest opinion, because she was just "standing there." The prime dogs I am used to seeing are usually "eyes-bulging" ready.

All that aside, I sure hope she does well for you :pirate:

Jack

Here's the one I'm working now, half pound over go weight with 2wks left. Pic doesn't do him much justice but he's coming along.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...9/eab8ec8d.jpg

He's getting there TSK. Looking good so far and good luck with yours.

i personally beleive that there is nothing wrong with the cornflakes and also they were used as the cheapest most easily digestable form of carbs, which they are, but bill also used fats such as flaw oil and coconut oil and knew that fats not carbs are what animals use for energs but those carbs are used in the first fifteen minutes of the work out then the fats kick in and i still beleive carbs are needed just in low percentages not high like humans need. u also have to understand that bill was putting a keep out there that was cheap and successful and he knew that cornflakes were not the best thing out there for carbs but the cheapest. you also must understand like jack said about the old man bill lnew two things no keep is good without the right weight and the right dog

the only thing you can tell from a photo is is how thin or fat a dog is. that dog appears to look great but i dont feel you can judge his condition from a photo you would have to watch that dog work see his coat in person and pull the skin on the back to see how dry he is. from all oputward appearences he looks awesome. what some dont understand also is that not all dogs are heavily muscled and while there musclesd are not popping like some they are in fact strong as an ox and can have wind for days a ripped dog does not equal and in shape dog you can handwalk a dog and get them to look ripped if u put in the miles

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

She is a very pretty bitch, beautiful, but to be perfectly honest she looks a little dry/flat/listless to me.

It is hard to tell from a photo though, and the lighting is bad, so maybe she is just real mellow.
The reason I say this is because she's not even at the full end of her chain.
I can't think of too many dogs I have photographed that aren't fully at the end of their chain, leaning into it.
She is supposedly in top form, and yet isn't even enthusiastic enough to get to the full-end of her chain.

Also, shame on you for using a cheap bullsnap and not a swivel; that is how dogs die in kennel wrecks :angry:

Not trying to be over-critical, but you posted a photo as an example of bringing a dog under, and then back up, and to be perfectly honest your bitch is just "standing there" and it looks like she has no pizzazz to her whatsoever, which is what I would expect from that style of conditioning: a flat dog.

Just being perfectly honest with you sir.

Jack

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i dont beleive the way a dog stands means all that much and sometimes a dog all tense at the end of a chain makes them look more muscular then they actually are some dogs are calm one i got right now never hits the end of his chain unless a dog is there or i am coming to work him or brim him insidfe he is calm ad doesnt care to much to move on his chain other than to lay down and roll around

This bitch is very mellow and meet my expectations. She is very smart. On the day of the show she came out the car barking and knew exactly what was up. Shes a beast! Too bad I was payed the forfeit.

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Originally Posted by bolero

the only thing you can tell from a photo is is how thin or fat a dog is. that dog appears to look great but i dont feel you can judge his condition from a photo you would have to watch that dog work see his coat in person and pull the skin on the back to see how dry he is. from all oputward appearences he looks awesome. what some dont understand also is that not all dogs are heavily muscled and while there musclesd are not popping like some they are in fact strong as an ox and can have wind for days a ripped dog does not equal and in shape dog you can handwalk a dog and get them to look ripped if u put in the miles

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She was in perfect shape, 100% hydrated. Pull her skin up and and it'll come down just as quick. I will never dry out my dogs that's for sure. Thank you for the positive feed back.

The reason I say this is because she's not even at the full end of her chain.
I can't think of too many dogs I have photographed that aren't fully at the end of their chain, leaning into it.
She is supposedly in top form, and yet isn't even enthusiastic enough to get to the full-end of her chain.

I agree with Bolero a picture is just one dimensional.

Most dogmen are NOT photographers and its hard to get that one perfect shot of the dog leaning into his chain to see his striations in his muscle tones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bolero

i personally beleive that there is nothing wrong with the cornflakes and also they were used as the cheapest most easily digestable form of carbs, which they are, but bill also used fats such as flaw oil and coconut oil and knew that fats not carbs are what animals use for energs but those carbs are used in the first fifteen minutes of the work out then the fats kick in and i still beleive carbs are needed just in low percentages not high like humans need. u also have to understand that bill was putting a keep out there that was cheap and successful and he knew that cornflakes were not the best thing out there for carbs but the cheapest.

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I think Bill did the best he could with the knowledge that was available at the time, but today it is pretty much unanimous that cornflakes are NOT "best practice" for a canine endurance fuel.

I am sure he knew cornflakes were not "the best" at the time also, but he still was under the impression that carbs were the primary fuel source for dogs ... when now it is known they are hardly needed at all (animal fats/oils are preferred) ... but no person can be blamed for using the available data of their time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bolero

you also must understand like jack said about the old man bill lnew two things no keep is good without the right weight and the right dog

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True enough! I think getting the weight right is the hardest thing to learn how to do ... it certainly used to be a stumbling block for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bolero

i dont beleive the way a dog stands means all that much and sometimes a dog all tense at the end of a chain makes them look more muscular then they actually are some dogs are calm one i got right now never hits the end of his chain unless a dog is there or i am coming to work him or brim him insidfe he is calm ad doesnt care to much to move on his chain other than to lay down and roll around

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True enough.

That said, a person (who only has a photo to look at) can only go by the impressions gained by that photo. I think we can all agree that a photo certainly doesn't offer as much information as actually being there to see the dog move around.

Hell, I have taken two photos of the same dog, during the same shoot, where one photo makes the dog look like a million dollars ... while the other photo makes him look like a POS. (I am sure we all have done this.)

So if OGDogg says his bitch was in top form, then I would go by that over any photo.

Jack

A lot of people will pick ideal pit weight and then add one pound. I have always liked to keep the dog near pit weight throughout the keep, never more than a pound over or a pound under. I like for the days work to start at or about pit weight so at the end of the work he is slightly under pit weight. I am trying to mimic show night conditions. If he is 45 at weigh in and the average show is over in or around the hour mark odds are he is at 44 around the hour mark, if not 43 1/2. If he is worked at 46-47 and then fed down/worked down to a pit weight of 45 then at the hour mark he is light at 44 and expected to deliver everything he did at 45-47 but weighing only 44. It is one thing to give weight at show time but entirely different to be light an hour or so in. I like for my dogs to start work at weight and experience hard work at weight and then learn to work a pound light which mimics the load on show night. Then fed up at the end of the day to be just about on weight for tomorrow. I keep them three to four pounds over during the rest of the year. maybe more if the winter is unusually hard. EWO

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

I can't imagine losing the required fat and muscle, to be under weight, being very good for a dog throughout the rigors of its conditioning process.

To me, it makes much more conceptual sense to have the dog right about where he needs to be, just a couple pounds over, and that gradually through conditioning, he is primed to be at his absolute best weight for the day of the show.

Even being @ pit weight isn't good for a dog for a long stretch, it is a brief window that needs to be taken advantage of, and then the dog needs to put on weight again. So I can't imagine it being good for a dog to go through an entire keep UNDER pit weight ... and then to have the fight of his life at pit weight (which weight itself should only be touched on briefly).

Jack

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by EWO

A lot of people will pick ideal pit weight and then add one pound. I have always liked to keep the dog near pit weight throughout the keep, never more than a pound over or a pound under. I like for the days work to start at or about pit weight so at the end of the work he is slightly under pit weight. I am trying to mimic show night conditions. If he is 45 at weigh in and the average show is over in or around the hour mark odds are he is at 44 around the hour mark, if not 43 1/2. If he is worked at 46-47 and then fed down/worked down to a pit weight of 45 then at the hour mark he is light at 44 and expected to deliver everything he did at 45-47 but weighing only 44. It is one thing to give weight at show time but entirely different to be light an hour or so in. I like for my dogs to start work at weight and experience hard work at weight and then learn to work a pound light which mimics the load on show night. Then fed up at the end of the day to be just about on weight for tomorrow. I keep them three to four pounds over during the rest of the year. maybe more if the winter
is unusually hard. EWO

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Great conditioners think alike:idea:

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=8046
Same under weight keep..same result 8)