I voted No. It certainly could add to a dogs resume to have to show his heart but is not necessary.
We should not fault a dog for being superior to his opponent.
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I voted No. It certainly could add to a dogs resume to have to show his heart but is not necessary.
We should not fault a dog for being superior to his opponent.
How could anyone Vote against a "True Game Dog" as "D.O.Y"?? Animal's such as BlackRocks' "NAZI", Not only should been a D.O.Y in his era. He's a dog of a "LIFETIME"! I.M.O ...G.I.S and lose,, im not going to vote...but, but the a dog who go past the boundaries of there ability, and pull out a win should NOT be ignored.
Man when I was just looking thru some peds I came across him being bred nd couldnt believe what I saw. I said Damn how's he even alive let alone being bred lol... Dogs that display extreme gameness win or lose should not be overlooked let alone forgotten....Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLDOG ANONYMOUS
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MISTER
Why we don't honor dogs that show exceptional gameness is a travesty to me.
As mentioned, we actually have 5 ways, not 4, to honor ability (BIS, 1x/2x, Ch, Gr Ch ... and, at the end of the year, DOY) ... while we only have 1 way to honor gameness (GIS) which can't even be awarded on a 1-card show (while wins/Ch/Gr Ch/DOY can).
It is time to have yearly accolades for the truly game dogs of our sport ... and that time is now :)
Jack
I guess since this is the best database I say Let's Take The Bull By The Horns and start honoring them brave, great animals. I also agree with you Jack, I'd walked past Jeep and went straight to Homer if I had a bitch in heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
I think we start a new award for Gameness here! Cause to me there is nothing more beautiful than a dog showing deep gameness.
Ch MC Bulldog's Jorge 5xw 1xlg 1xd is a great example...so is Dirttowns(Ablizins) Chavis
Okay, let's keep it going for gamest dog of 2014.
The Nazi dog Redrum bred can't be counted, as he went a couple years ago, but I am going to toss in one of mine Wildschild's Prime Ape who won a tough one in 1:43. Was a natural finisher who was never behind and couldn't find an opponent because of this ... then someone brought what they thought was "the dog" to beat him. Prime Ape swarmed this dog, but got hurt severely at :19, and then tried to hold the dog out for over an hour, injured. This dog finally got through Prime Ape's defense, flipped him, and hit him in the ass-end, and that is usually where the fat lady starts to sing ... when the defensive dog is down, and getting killed, deep in the trenches.
Well, Prime Ape was not finished, and he managed to get up, with the dog still in his ass end, but Prime Ape couldn't reach his nose ... so he just grabbed a shoulder, and shook, and shook, and shook ... until the other dog came out ... and Prime Ape, injured more now, once again re-established control and stopped the dog a little while later.
I admit my bias, lol, but I honestly don't care how the dog was bred, any dog that is a down dog getting rooted in the guts/ass-end, after having its defenses breached that deep into a deal ... but still makes a comeback like that ... shows uncommon resolve and determination to win IMO :)
He is not my official vote, but I do believe his effort is worthy of consideration.
The Chavis dog Hushman mentioned sounds like an incredible animal also :exclamation:
Jack
I'll go with CH.Lotto he took what most would not and would of been then all night long.
I always thought that gameness was the name of the game but if he look at it in this sense then Hallie Berry should've been considered
Was that in 2014?Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
Who did she beat/time?Quote:
Originally Posted by stopem
Extreme Gameness should qualify a dog for DOY status, due to the trickery. One should also add more titles so that the level of honesty is balanced as well. If not a lot of key things will continue to go unnoticed.
Split dead even at 13/13
Never would I do such a thing. If a dog shows the will to never quit, regardless of what happens to him. He deserves to live in my book. JMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed
GLOBAL
I agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed
GLOBAL
Yeah, this guy Pit Bull Committed needs to be committed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWA
He speaks about breeding top quality animals "through culling" ... but I'm not sure if he's ever actually bred a top quality, Champion-defeating animal =;
As best as I can tell, hard-culling produces nothing ... only breeding decisions produce dogs.
No one that I know of, who actually has bred top-quality animals, culls exceptionally-game dogs.
That is the mark of an idiot/dog-butcher, but not a dogman.
I do agree that ability is certainly important, of course it's important, but dogmen treasure gameness above all else ... you don't kill exceptionally-game dogs.
Jack
I'm with this also and if gameness comes into account with elite dogs on the grand stage with eachother. We all still will be looking more at the Grand stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWA
Yes it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Gets my vote tooQuote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
I voted NO. I think DOY is a performance title. I would like to think it means for the period of that year a certain dog won over the stiffest of competition. I do not know a lot about this year's odds on favorite (PBB DOY) but the fact he won as many as he did and beat a dog who had won just about as many as he did would get my vote for DOY.
If one of the dog's he totally outclassed yet made those chin scraping, legs broken scratches were on the ballot I would not vote him for DOY. But if there was a category for GameDog of the Year that dog that showed that gameness would get my vote, and the winner/loser would not factor in.
I consider DOY as the best total package dog for that given year. I think it was in a previous post, but the gamest dogs find themselves on the 'losing' side of the bracket, simply by running into a more talented/higher ability dog. And, unfortunately, and I do not agree, that 'losing game dog' often ends up seen as a plug. If that same dog did the exact same thing, yet won, for whatever reason, his gameness is deemed more valuable.
I like the idea of having multiple year end titles. I like the idea of Kennel of the Year, and maybe even Producer of the Year as well. No other 'organization' has just one year end award. I mean at 9PM the Oscars come on, they make one award announcement, and then its if off by 9:04.
I would love to see another category "Gamest DOY". For me, and it is my personal opinion, GDOY would be more impressive than DOY. EWO
:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
What are smoking? My 2xw was a game dog, little below average mouth, average ability but rocket scratches. he won his first in 247, won his 2nd in 2hrs(which I should've retired him nd built a dynasty around him) and lost his 3rd into a tough 1xw who had recently beaten a highly regarded CH. I knew what this dog was ”a game dog” on his best day but he won 2 and lost extremely game in his 3rd, are you telling me this dog should've been culled after schooling? No he deserved to live and do what he was bred to do. The only mistake that was made was by me not retiring him. Game dogs very much deserve to live and should revered by those who witness them or own themQuote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed
Yes Mister game dogs are the epitome of what these dogs are hence the name.
I know where Pit Bull Committed is coming from though. I've known many dogmen who would also cull a game plug in search of a match dog. Typically these men have no interests in breeding stock so that type of animal has no value to them.
I certainly would never cull a dog who never stopped trying, I think it is backwards thinking. If you don't want to continue with them send them to someone who will. These are the dogs who possess the foundation to build upon.
S_B
Mister, most people can't win with a dog like that. They need all kinds of mouth, ability, and all the strengths to pull out a win. There are some guys who don't have the balls to let it ride and give one the chance unless they feel like they are a heavy favorite. Nobody likes to lose, but some are terrified by it. A good durable game dog is as hard as any to beat.
Like I said, dog butchers, not dogmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
And they seldom have really good records either.
Jack
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
+1 Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
I like that ewo
A game dog always has a spot on my yard.
Gamest dog of the year should get titled. I'm all for a gdoy.
That would shake the game up.
Gameness is the foundation that all these once in a lifetime world beaters where built on, if the men that laid these foundations had the same cull cull cull attitude that some guys have, these animals would have never been born.
We have a saying and that's that you'll get no luck for killing a gamedog, an old dog or a pup.
A gamedog has done all within his ability and still wants to do more, an old dog has obviously been a loyal servant and just because he or she can't produce pups anymore they've earned the right to live their days out in peace and a pup, if you don't have space for them then don't bring them into the world, it's not their fault we get greedy.
I'm not religious but I believe we still need a bit of luck in this game, truth be know we need a lot lol
Don't get me wrong, no body wants a yard full of game plugs but if you find yourself with a yard full of them, don't question the dogs, question the way you've bred them. Because More than likely your breeding methods have given you a yard full of rubbish.
Dunno the longer I am in these dogs gameness has a limit
I doubt any dog could just go on and on , I mean if a dog would have to show gameness on and on , the tear on his body
he probably wouldn't even make it to nr 5
I have seen quite a few and seen those that would show extreme gameness only to be brought out again and quit in short time
I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed
Simply b/c a dog has never had to display heart to win doesn't mean the heart isn't there.
DOY is about performance and there is a lot to consider. More than all the different abilities, keeps, handling and gameness. There's a ton to consider. So, b/c there are so many ways to win and so many ways to lose, DOY accolades should not consider one component over the other, but rather sum of all components.
Gene Stallings went to Bear Bryant about a recruit for football one time. He was super excited. Kept pointing out how, no matter how many times this young man got knocked down, he would always get back up and keep coming back for more. Showed Coach Bryant countless examples of how this young man would always come back for more, no matter what happened to him. He finally asked Coach Bryant, "So what do you think". Coach Bryant didn't hesitate. He simply said, "I want the guy that keeps knocking him down"
Winning is about winning. Doesn't matter how, especially in a sport where there are so many ways to lose. One freak "Fear Bite" from a cur that is losing drastically from the bottom can end a fight or even the life of a truly great animal.
So no, I don't think gameness should carry more weight in selecting a DOY candidate than other components. I think it is definitely a consideration, but no more than a lot of other components.
As usual - well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by EWO
Jack, I get where you are coming from, but there are a lot of good dogmen in the area that I'm in, who have no interest in breeding. They are actually humane, but on the same hand, do not have any use for a dog who cannot win in dominant fashion. Their win/loss records are as good as anyone on the planet. Simply b/c they have no use for a dog that is ONLY game does not mean they murder/cull/or destroy the animals, it only means they have no use for them. Me? Sure, I'll feed and breed a game dog, but again, I'm not doing what they are doing and not on their level.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
I'm not taking a 205lb guy who can take a beating and never stop but can do nothing else, to fight Jon Jones. It's not a smart business decision.
You just said if you have a yard full of game dogs, then you have rubbish????Quote:
Originally Posted by Macker
Honestly - I think like you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldoghistorian
I think that every single one will quit and they all have a clock that is ticking. The more damage they take, the faster the clock ticks. Less recovery they get, the faster the clock is ticking. It goes on and on.
Any dog and every dog born CAN BE STOPPED!
I just said a lot things, if that's how you read it then so be it. Let me lay it out a bit simpler.
Take gameness as the most solid foundation to build upon, if you have a solid family of game dogs you can build upon it in your breeding choices, if you constantly get game plug after game plug, ask yourself where your going wrong.
If you wanna twist what I say to make out something else but I take gameness as the single most important factor when breeding dogs.
I got where you were coming from Macker. It is the truth! Gameness should come first in foundation dogs and you build from there. The idea is the total package animal that can win with the least amount of damage or if needed can be there all night long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macker
I think No Quarter might have just focused on that small part of what you wrote instead of the whole?
I see we are holding pretty steady at a tie. I'm kind of confused as to why anyone would vote yes after reading all of these pages of good information. We can't all agree and that's what keeps us honest and interested but I would like to hear more from the "yes" voters!
S_B
I voted no, I'd like to see the separate categories, it just makes it a hole lot more interesting every year when we're voting and debating. Look at the mileage we're getting from this sure lol