Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushman
That is not "bad" ... fucking off a dog's life because it was "cheap to do so" is worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by loot
Jack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushman
That is not "bad" ... fucking off a dog's life because it was "cheap to do so" is worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by loot
Jack
Breeding a high priced average,cold or cur is bad though.That's what fucks up the breed we all luv.U c it all the time!!!!I understand where ur coming from but at the same time u have to stop n c the negative is greater.All ur hard work could go down the drain when a dude breeds an unworthy animal just to get his coin back
That is all theoretical bullshit ... and exactly the opposite of the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushman
The only way my hard work has gone "down the drain" is when people have LOST my good dog, not "bred" my dogs they "didn't check."
The funniest part about the insanity of what you believe is that my two WORST producers when I got out were my "HARDEST-checked" (Pup Pup and Super Red).
Being "hard checked" has NOTHING to do with producing ability. You simply have no idea WTH you're taking about.
I could produce better dogs with "unchecked" dogs of my line than most people could produce with "hard checked" scatter-bred mutts.
Jack
Jack I was not being specific about your line and your dogs I was talking more in general.there are many people out there who sell their dogs for big money only to have that high priced dog bred when it shouldn't be.I personally believe a dog needs to prove itself in the box just like its parents,grandparents, uncles,aunts,sibling..etc.but that's just how we do.not saying its the end all be all just our way.nothing more
Once u sell a dog u have NO control of what that person is it going to do it.that was more the point I was trying to make.
But here's the thing: if other people are SUCKING at breeding dogs, then their POOR RESULTS (or NO results) is all the criticism that's needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushman
If somebody wants to breed untested, non-athletic, dogs together ... why should I care?
I am not going to be buying their dogs.
Their dogs do not affect me.
I just don't see (nor will I ever) how worrying about what others do benefits me in any way.
I think that GOOD dogs are WORTH MONEY.
I think MY TIME, MY EFFORT, and MY EXPERIENCE are worth money.
So to go off on some tangent about green blowhards, breeding untested dogs, and how this "ruins the breed" has NOTHING to do with THE POINT.
I agree, pups from green blowhards, breeding untested shit, are NOT going to command the same price as a proven breeder breeding his best dogs together.
And if a MFer can't tell the difference, then HE IS A DUMBASS.
But to argue and digress to talk "only" about idiots breeding paper is as stupid as wanting to say the best-bred dogs in the world should only be $300.
BOTH ARE WRONG.
It seems nobody wants to be SENSIBLE and think correctly ... they only want to argue one extreme stupidity or the other :rolleyes:
And I personally would rather see "unchecked, well bred dogs" be overpriced ... than to see TRULY well-bred, healthy, vibrant pups disrespected by being sold for a newspaper price.
To devalue these dogs is a worse crime in my eyes than to get a little carried away in price :idea:
Because the truth is DOG BUTCHERS and BROKE MOFOS are the only ones who don't think these dogs are worth a good price.
I don't know anything bout Dog Butchers n broke mofos.I personally have spent big $$$ on dogs n so have others in our circle.Sum made it other sleep w/the fishes.Just part of the game
Here is something that will shed light on everything:
What TRULY GREAT DOGS have "you and your camp" produced with your ideas/methods of selection and beliefs?
Taz Loco,Holy Mary,Maya, Chuchillo,Fantasmo...Like I said just our way of doing things.But it works fr us,not knocking ANYBODYS ideas/methods.We're not "Breeders" ,nor do we sell dogs to the public
First of all, credit to you for posting the dogs ... although it would be helpful if you'd post the links to your dogs, so we can pull out the ol' microscope.Quote:
Originally Posted by HushmanTaz Loco,Holy Mary,Maya, Chuchillo,Fantasmo...Like I said just our way of doing things.But it works fr us,not knocking ANYBODYS ideas/methods.We're not "Breeders" ,nor do we sell dogs to the publicQuote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Taz Loco
Holy Mary
Fantasmo
I could only find 3 of the 5 dogs you posted, 2 of which were on the other site, so let us examine their quality and "greatness," objectively.
Objectively-speaking, from the 3 dogs you posted, whose links I could find, there are 2 wins, 3 losses (all game).
That is a 40% win record, a 60% loss record, and a 100% "show game" record.
It seems like you have got an outstanding, consistent idea about gameness, and have that key aspect under control, which is awesome.
However, it seems you have a lot of room for improvement when it comes to the ability to win :idea:
Maybe the other dogs I couldn't find will bring up your quotients, I don't know, but (based on what I could find) your dogs' win record is actually below average.
In order to win more than you lose, you need other key factors besides "being checked" for gameness.
However, your gameness percentages are OUTSTANDING, and hey, that is where everything starts IMO.
If you keep your gameness percentages, and (through expert selection) double your % win record, do you think your dogs will be "worth more" than the average guy selling dogs?
Because that is about where I was, when I stopped breeding dogs, 87% win record/92% win-or-show-game, over 20 years and several hundred fights, so I think even a green guy breeding two dogs he got from me should still be able to charge more for his pups than some bozo breeding mix-bred mutts together.
Maybe the green guy, if he doesn't know what he's looking for, will ruin the quality over time ... but that part is on him.
I still think WELL BRED dogs of this breed deserve a price that justifies what they go through to be able to produce.
People who buy dogs "to go through them" NEVER really succeed.
People who buy dogs AS INVESTMENTS to build their yard up, are the ones who make it off the ground and eventually take off.
That has been my repeated and consistent observation.
Ultimately, there is a difference between a guy who buys dogs just to fight, a guy who buys dogs to build his yard up and really get a group of great dogs for his own success, and a guy who buys dogs just to breed/sell dogs (with no thought of selection/quality).
It has always been pretty obvious to me who-was-who ...
Anyway, take care.
Jack
This is a great topic and not to change it,but the tone of it. I have paid great money for some great Dogs! Paid good money for some well bred stock from great breeders that were not worth a red cent of what I had to pay for him or her!
The saleman has something you want and his price is his price may it be high or low you as a buyer can choose to pay it or move on!
Paid $600 bucks for BAD A$$ bulldog who was one of the best ever beat two great camps with him! Then on the same token I have also paid $50. Bucks for bad ass great bred Game dog as a puppy. We beat his father who was picked up!
His breeder got out of dogs a few years later and one day in our convo he told me he had three pups left.So i stop by a left with this pup and only paid $50.Bucks for this*puppy, in the next three years was true to his line game as hell with no dam abilty!
Another example is paid top $$$ for a very well bred propect who turned out to be a ruff ass cur that based on how he was bred people were lined up to breed to him he was snipped and put out on a chain were he lived the rest of his day as a well bred expensive cur that got me cussed out by the wife everytime she looked at him! Lol
Now we dont do much breedings unless we feel it in our bones that we will have something to carry us into the next phase! With that said,had a chance to get something that was never offered to anyone before she was a lot of money for a puppy but this puppy turned out to be the best bitch we have ever owned we then had to pay top $$$ for a stud fee. That breeding we were asked many of times to sale one or two but the answer was none are for sale.They would then ask,"well if you did happen to sale one what would my price be?" Answer was three grand$$$! Why that much for a puppy they ask, "BECAUSE TO( ME)" they were priceless and if you want what I think the world of it's going to cost ya! Lol
Now we have never sold a dog or pup as of yet but does not mean that we wont!
Now if breeding dogs is your bread and butter and john doe comes a calling for a dog/pup then the price is set by "you" be it high or low! High price or low price has nothing to do with giving this breed a bad name!
People who buy this breed or any breed of dog and does not take the time to take care for this responsibility,, to house,feed,clean,spend time with them.Are who give the dog a bad look!
Not the breeder who has 20,30,100 "HEALTHY"dogs. His yard is clean and dogs look like pure bred happy dogs! He (the breeder) sold them(the buyer) a happy fat puppy.The buyer let that well bred ( High $ or low $) puppy die of heat stroke or starve out on the chain or in it's kennel run!
Now as for "Me" it would piss me off if i did sale a person a puppy for big money or be it chicken shit and found out that this person allowed that to happen to my hard work! Nothing I could do about it besides no longer sale dogs to them.
To say that you could careless what the next person did with their dog/puppy( years of your hard work) is understanable! To each his own!! B,u,t B,U,T when that is being done with your hard work it has to touch you in some type of way! No you cant do anything about it no longer "Your" dog! Very true!
To beable to feel nothing when something like this were to happen, It has had to have happen to you very often. You have built up a shell/wall and turned of the give a freak switch! No?
Bottom line is be it .50cents or 300,stacks for a puppy if he or she makes "YOU" happy then so be it!
So I dont think cheap pups are a disgrace to the breed. We as humans place a value on something that might not be worth a dam to the next person but means the world to you!
"IF I WERE A BREEDER"
I would look at it like this we run a line of working dogs right.
Now what that dogs labor/job is would deam his worth by how good of a working dog he or she is at said job. Depending on how important the job of this dog is to me would place a maket value on these said line of dogs.
Being in this breed of dog who really has no job that is helpful,they would have no value as they dont help hunt,haul fire wood and so on.
Now with what this line is bred for and used for then they start to have a value if that is what we are looking for out of them.
With this for "Me" value is placed on how many years will these line of bulldogs keep getting me to the winning circle,how long has said breeder been putting out not just good but GREAT BULLDOGS that are true to form for what the line is known to throw. Are these dogs coming down throw dog's that can compete any where on God's green earth. Now my next question would be to myself can I afford this asking price of the breeder. Now if I were the breeder the same rules would apply with added time to wean,clean keep multi litters happy and healthy.
I think the breeder of unhealthy,worm filled belly living in their own waste puppies for high price or low price is the REAL DISGRACE!!! To the breed and the line of dogs he is pumping out!
Truth be told these scum bags are the very ones who keep the real breeders name on the breedings to fetch top dollar for these culls with the real breeders name behind them.And once that sub family of piss poor health and breedings start to take a nose dive its the name of that true GAME DOG BREEDER who's name get dragged thru the mud and a GAME line of dogs are looked at sideways because of these FUCK UPs!
What you eat dont make me shit.
Very trueQuote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
its not about being checked hard it is about being looked at period. if someone continually breeds dog that have never shown there skills then you will eventually not have working dogs ne more.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Great post @, Ragedog10
So I dont think cheap pups are a disgrace to the breed. We as humans place a value on something that might not be worth a dam to the next person but means the world to you!
This is a very true statement. EWO
Very true. Skills are what need to be evaluated mostly (all without ever making a bad move), because if a person is not evaluating their dog's skills ... it will show up in their win record (or lack of win record) ... even if they're "testing hard."Quote:
Originally Posted by bolero
Just because people buy cheap dogs from people, and those cheap pups happen to turn out, doesn't mean cheap pups are "more likely" to turn out.
It pretty much means they got lucky ... or they knew the guy.
And just because people pay high $$ for pups, that don't turn out, doesn't mean "all" high $ pups don't turn out.
It either means they got unlucky or it means they can't tell the difference from a quality pedigree and a 'pretty' (but empty) pedigree.
The bottom line is, MOST people who are smart enough to have/breed good dogs, that are significantly more likely to turn out, are also smart enough to know that their dogs are therefore worth more than what's being put out there by the average guy.
Jack
to me it is all relative i never paid over 500 for a dog but i also put in work. i went and visited the yard cleaned shit and worked with the dogs ad now i have been offered free dogs for the work i did
As well you should.Quote:
Originally Posted by bolero
Being interested enough to help someone out, and gaining a person's trust/appreciation is a whole other deal.
I've given dogs to good folks myself. I was speaking of complete strangers wanting dogs.
I hope this is still on topic and not already covered as I read the post awhile back and hope I haven't missed anything but a price of a dog can cahange depending on who is selling it. I have no problemsaying I'm not as well known as others in these dogs so say me and jack go to the same yard and are given a dog out of a litter that is worth 1200 Jack takes his ask for 1200 and I take mine and ask for 800. No doubt jack not only gets the 1200 I bet he sells his faster. Nothing is wrong with that. He is a better known person then myself, again I'm okay with that since I'm just working on being known but is that 1200 dollar dog better then the 800? My point is you have to be smart enough to look at the big picture when buying a dog. Know the ped, the history, the seller and last the price. I hope my thoughts came out here in away that make sense but if not feel free to ask for me to explain better.
I can agree with that, maybe I'd change the order to better fit my needs such as... Know the Dogman (seller), the history, the pedigree and lastly the price.Quote:
Originally Posted by widerange
S_B
yeah I didn't have those in any order just a listQuote:
Originally Posted by S_B
I'm Living in a small Country where in Most places Bulldogs Are forbidden. The pressure against them. Was so High that Most good People got out of the dogs. The history with These dogs was too Short to cover the Bad press. So here is absolutely no market for game breed dogs. The only thing you could sell with super high Prize are the bullys etc😁. The Gamedogpeople, the few that remaind went all underground- There is no Publicity left. No advertising no internet nothing.
So WE Are only breeding for ourselfs, Friends and Family with the Result that we do Not breed that much. So breeding Bulldogs over here is more about Trading animals and farming them out etc. Than selling them. Over here you are glad to find a good Home for a good dog.
I got the full Sence and Intention of Jacks Poll- but it is Not Fitting our Situation in our Country. When i bought my dogs i had to first become friend with the breeder often visiting and then got 4 dogs for 2.000 with Puppy options for the breeder. As I statet before- you could Not Sale a a game bred dog to People You Dont know. The risks are to high.
The only reason for selling a bulldog for $200, is if it's a person that you are mentoring. To make them appreciate the breed and the animal. Anything else is uncivilized...
$200 is a disgrace
zombie thread
I like this site, but having to dig up these old posts.... Anyway, it's no one's business how people price their dogs.
Very very disgraceful
Who care the man is a fool n only dragging him n his dogs down but truth be told them dogs he bred are probably not worthy of breathing so....
I don't breed often. Just to get what I want. Sometimes I will give some away or sell to people I know cheap. There is no money to be made in breeding dogs.
This is a very interesting topic of discussion fellas I have sold pups for 200 before you can't tell a man what price tag to put on his hound's its just like shopping for bargains u just got to know what you buying
Very well said
It is an old thread and an age old discussion. I participated back then and still pretty much feel the same. The buyer always dictates the price.
The puppy, or the car or the house or the horse is only worth what someone is willing to pay and that is regardless of the asking price.
If a guy asks $200 for his puppies that is his business. If someone haggles him to $150 then that particular puppy is worth $150 at that time. And like anything it will appreciate or depreciate in time.
EWO