I know it's no piece of cake but..... Build your own mill. Here's why....

The advice is top notch but the guy was not. Most definitely not a true gentlemen. His mills were top of the line, as nice as any ever made. Just do not pay him upfront. Do not pay him half now and half at pick up. He was not near as accessible once he had the money.

With that said, he kept his dogs in A-1 condition. He would eat bologna sandwiches and potted meat all week in order to buy better dog food or medicinals for his dogs. That is top notch.

He struggled with upfront monies and delivery dates. EWO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by easyboss

Having spoken to ciruos many years ago, just before he retired and went into bike building, he ran down a whole load of info on the phone from overseas. Top guy and a true gentleman. The biggest and most important factor to making a slat mill, according to him, was the frame and belt, and how both must be aligned perfectly in order for a mill to run true. So belts attached to the slats must be in perpendicular fashion, and the mill must be built straight. tHAT WAS HIS ADVICE.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrostyPaws

EB, did you build the mill that's your avatar picture?

---

No frosty - these are mills designed by HF mills Netherlands. Top notch. Im a dealer for these mills but i dont build them. www.hfmills.nl

Baler belt is a little thick. It will last forever but sort of stiff over the end wheels.

I bought my oak material from a local pallet company. I cut them and planed them to size. Lowe's and Home Depot sell it but it is as high as all get out. EWO

Post a pic of your belt material if you will. I built mine 1st time with a strap type material and it worked very well. Over time the holes stretched a little and then the tracking got off. It was always in need of adjustment. I bought a one ply PVC type belt got it put together and it is way stiff.

Would like to see a side view or a part number for a material that works. EWO

Good approach and good luck man. I used bailer belt myself, it is heavy and durable lil stiff to begin with but it'll be fine, I found a local cabinet maker and he made slats for a decent price.

Good job. I'm an "as long as it works, as long as it serves the purpose" type myself. Good job.

Once you have it up and running you can always adjust and make improvements. The first carpet mill frame I made had a ton of 'adjustments' and 'improvements' to axle diameter and axle/roller location. I drilled and re-drilled so many holes the end of the mill looked like I hit it with buckshot. It was a mess. But it got better and better.

The oak slats may be heavy but you can always run them thru a table saw and then plane them to a thinner/lighter slat. Since it is working I would do that before I went to a bigger wheel.

Either way, good job. I always like 'doing it myself' vs. spending a boat load of cash. EWO

I used to help Randy out from time to time when I came to the yard. The key items to insure that the mill tracks true are as follows:
1. The frame MUST be square, he used a table jig
2. I think he used 1.5” tubing. If you are going to use aluminum I would step up to 2” due to the weight not the tensile strength of the metal
3. The slats and the belt are very often over looked. I think he was using 2.25 and I don’t remember what they were in thickness. What I can assure you is that if the slat are too small or to large you will get slat rock.
4. The belt I honestly don’t remember anything other than he used the clipper laces and had them shipped to him.
5. The roller bed should be attached to the frame in a manner that minimizes the transfer of vibration to the vertical support members of the frame. Randy used 4 stud point with rubber washers located on the horizontal supports of the frame.
6. The main wheels are adjusted just like a motorcycle rear wheel he used split hub 6” wheels
7. Roller bed wheels and all bearings are about how much you want to spend. Not that the distance between wheels can not be greater peak to peak than the slat. So if you are using wheels that are roughly 2” this works well with a 2.25” slat.

All in all it is not hard to do at all, but you are looking at $500-$600 or close in parts for a budget build, minus tools and your time. Is it worth it, depends on how much time and or money you have. Randy built his first mill because he needed it to work Ranger, not because he felt like making mills. It honestly was something that Tom kinda pointed for him to be able to make a few bucks ontop of the dogs.

Anyway, I can provide a few sketches of any areas where you have issues, I don’t have the time to make CADD drawings right now. If people are really looking for more details PM me and I’ll honestly give some thought to pulling together a set of DIY plans and parts. I hope this helps!

YIS

Moving up to 10” main wheels will not increase the rotation of the belt, I agree that it’s the easiest solution that comes to mind. However, you might want to reduce the thickness of the slats or the belt to reduce the weight.

Randy C? If so he made some nice mills. Top of the line. He lived just down the road from here. I pass the spot every day to and from work.

Great mills. Great craftsmanship. A skilled guy no doubt. It just turned out to be a bad idea to send the money first, that always seemed to make the phone not work. But that does not take away from the quality of the build. EWO

LOL...Yea that's Randy. It sucks that he has to own the turn around on the product, but he was always backed up. That was why I spent the time helping when I could, he could use the hand and I needed information. He never had an issue telling me whatever I wanted to know, it was just a matter of asking the proper questions, it didn't matter if it was the dogs or the mills. He was in ruff physical shape and was always fighting with the VA over his knees, a damn shame! I miss my trips to Franklin, those were the good old days.

I remember when I first met him (lord), you can never judge a book by it's cover. He ended up being a stand up dude that took a great deal of pride in his work and the dogs.

Those mills were badass....lucky to get hands on Moses. :)

Yea the mills were kool, but was an open exchange of information because I had something to offer. It was the hounds, Tom was putting bulldogs on the ground at the time. It was night and day between his place and when the dogs were with Randy. I loved that little Lefty dog he had of Tom's who produced petty well for him. Johnny Boy would bite the shit out of you if you could get him out the house but produced solid dogs and Ranger never put one on the gound half his size. Randy tought me the value of a good bitch and what she would do for your yard.

We tried to breed to lefty toward the end but he couldn't get it up anymore. When Randy skipped and the freak girl didn't pay the rent we tried to buy the spot to build some self storage units. She left the place in shambles. The registration papers were left out with a dog in the house for a number of days (by the countless piles and the god awful smell). The dogs destroyed the papers. We saw half the papers for Ranger and a piece of Lefty's. It was a mess.

If you rode by and looked up on the hill you would never expect the quality of the dogs nor the quality in the mills from what one could see. That is most definitely a book that can't be judged by its cover. EWO

EWO - That's too bad, he really punted all together...damn shame. I hated the snakes, so I had to give him some space. THAT was out of control! He knew he had a snow balls chance in HELL getting me back in that house after he started bringing in those snakes. The crazy thing was, money from breeding snakes was twice what he made on the dogs and the mills together minus the effort (so he said).

Lefty produced smart, slick, head hunters and was an honest bulldog. All of the fuss around him pulling up made since after you saw how Tom kept ALL of the dogs, but it really hurt him as a stud. I think it took seeing the dogs that Randy bred off him for people to be willing to back up to him. I think he ended up making ROM, but it could have been done a lot faster IMO, he was a very good dog. A lot of kennels, comp was very stiff, space was tight and you had your pick of flavors with ALL kinds off VERY good dogs well bred dogs.

Very true. We saw a couple dogs off him and that is why we tried to breed to him. The first half of his life was incredibly hard. He had four wins credited to him and 1 loss where it was said he quit. Some say he did, some say he didn't. But most will say he had every right to quit as his life was not conducive to high level competition.

Same deal with me for the snakes. I had a buddy who was into the snakes and he and Randy hit it off really well. He was like, "I just got my Eastern Brown" or ""My cobra is finally starting to spit" or "The python eats a small pig". Although the addition built onto the trailer was world class carpentry, it did look like the end of the trailer would break off in any decent gust of wind. He even had a Nile Crocodile. And I also heard him say the snakes paid for the dogs.

I never made it closer than Lefty's chain spot to the trailer. Once he started the snake talk I was as close as I needed to be. One time I pulled up to check on the mill I was paying for and he came out with some sort of snake wrapped all around him. It was his way of saying he did not have it and I took the hint and backed to the road before he ever got close.

Weird dude. Excellent craftsman. EWO

lol @ EWO

Lefty stopped for sure, he was in piss poor shape and I think he had worms really bad. Hell, Tom wasn't even putting any real work into the dogs and showing them staright off the chain. I guess it was easy to get lazy with dogs like Buckus just spitting out pups out back, now keep in mind Tom had other dogs that were not Buckus breed dogs that were CH on his yard, i.e. Spice. It was crazy, This guy had more CH(s) out in just nastyness than most people have in just winners period. If they were winning at all and off Tom's yard it was a BULLDOG for REAL! I honestly wasn’t prepared to see that level of neglect, that was hard living for any dog.

I have heard the stories but never met him or saw the conditions so that is as much as I could say about that. On the other hand, Randy did a really nice job with his dogs. They were well cared for, well fed and the yard/kennels looked better than his living quarters. The first and only time I went in it was a wreck. I stood in the doorway and thought one would really have to go out of his way to get this bad. I looked over on the table and it was an aquarium with a snake and he noticed it scared the crap out of me. He told me the name but I forget. He said it was one of the deadliest snakes in the world, third or fourth deadliest. It came from somewhere in Africa. He then goes into explaining his protocol if he were to be bitten because the snakes are here illegally with no anti-venom. The closest hospital would struggle with an allergic reaction to a bee-sting and to own one of the deadlier snakes in the world. My first trip in his doorway, and at the same time my last.

We saw littermates from Lefty and Daisy go. I think Daisy was another of Tom's Buck/Chinaman/Panther bred females. We tried to breed to him but he was done by then. Almost like every other vertebrae was fused together. He could barely get around. He was old by age but much older than his age suggested. I tried to buy a few of the younger dogs but he would not part with them.

From the outside looking in it was a rinky dink old single wide. Inside one half was the nicest mills built, maybe the nicest ever. On the other half were some of the deadliest, illegally owned snakes in the world. He was a good dogman I thought. He did great by his dogs to the point of sacrificing on himself. EWO

LMFAO... I see you were listening...LMFAO! Hell yea that kat had a Gaboon Viper, true story! Clearly you were as traumatized as I was; he made fun of me all the time. That dude wasn’t scared of shit! I used to promise him if I got bit by ANYTHING he was feeding, I would put them all down and set that bitch on fire.

The first time I met him and he come down to open the gate, I put the hammer on the seat. I'll be honest he had me thinking about plan B, he thought it was funny. You know I had to ask him what was going on with the swastikas! I have been a lot of places and seen a lot of things, but that kat had me on tilt for a hot second, I just wasn't able to connect the dots.

It was always good to see him and I never left without having taken something away from the time I spent with him.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane EWO; these curs made us the most unlikely of friends, go figure. I really do apologize for hijacking the post, things just took a hard right.

I enjoyed the hard right lol

My apologies for hijacking the treadmill thread as well.

It was a long time ago. I pass that spot a couple three times per week in my commute. It is a lot different now. It was not like it was a hundred years ago but I could not imagine tying out 20-30 bulldogs along side a major US highway like that. Then to think it was some of the deadliest snakes in the world were inside that little trailer. We use to say one storm could knock down a tree and they would all be free. Can you imagine the panic if the public were to find out? The gaboon Viper is on the loose, along with a Cobra and also keep a look out for a four foot Nile Crocodile. It would have been a mess.

Back t the mills. I know a guy who has one from maybe 95-96-97 time frame. Still works today as well as it did back then. We replaced a couple of the slats but other than that, just as it was sold. Tons of dogs have been worked on the mill. Still kicking.

And back to the hijack part- the swastikas kind of thru me as well. He had some flags hanging around with all kinds of hate and white power stuff. Like I said he was a weird dude, an excellent craftsman, but a weird dude nonetheless. EWO

LOL...This is all funny now, but it was OUT OF CONTROL! He was bulldogs Steve Irwin, so unless you saw him put them into a suitcase, assume NC has some new residents.

As far as the mills, I wonder if 95-97 are stage 1 mills. I have no idea what changed, I only worked with him on the stage 3 mills. They should last a lifetime, the fact that he replaced the a few slats says a whole lot about the use. I think he worked on tanks when he was in the service, for real. That is where the idea for his mill came from, but I have never heard of anyone being unhappy with one. He wouldn't send one out the door if it wasn't the same as the last, void of compromise. When other builders were trying to figure out how to cut corners with cheaper materials, we were talking about different gauge tubing to make them more ridged and removing cross members. He even planned, beveled, and finished the slats himself. I'll go as far as to say, the only thing that was a direct bold on were to roller bed wheels and the belts. People would leave the mills out like they were furniture or works of art.

I'm going to guess they were between Stage I or Stage II. The one I was paying for was a Stage III. They were as nice as anything out there. I would be willing to bet one of his mills from the late 90's would stand up against anything being made now. He was definitely ahead of his time.

The quality was beyond reproach. That cat could flat lay down a bead too. His welds were superb. He was quite the craftsman. He had tremendous skill. Far superior to mine.

As far as the snakes go, I felt like he was a real nut job. To have something that deadly is beyond me, but to each his own.

His mills were a work of art. EWO

On the engineering side the lighter slats will help. Going from oak to pine will make them lighter but planing them to a lesser thickness is a better option. Going from a 6" wheel to an 8" wheel will not be that much difference other than lengthening the belt to match the extra surface area of the larger wheel. The right length belt matched to the right diameter wheel is really the same thing.

This is some Randy C. Stage III info he gave me a number of years ago. Take a permanent marker and mark the slat as soon as it touches the end roller. Make a mark on the wheel. Slowly roll the belt and mark the wheel just when the slat comes away from the wheel. If the belt comes off the wheel more than half way, wraps, the belt is too short. Add a slat or so. The slat should start to make the turn on the wheel when it comes off. If it drops off the end of the wheel and does not start to make the turn it will have to make a hard 90 degree turn when it goes back over the other wheel, which is drag. Remove a slat. The smaller the slat the easier it is to make this fine tuning adjustment. 2.5" would be a big increase or decrease depending on the length needed.

Or like Randy said, do what everyone else does. Find someone else's mill that is working, measure it from axle to axle, count their slats and allow for the slat spacing and all the math is done for you.

Best of luck. I enjoy the build as much as seeing the end product working a dog. Good luck. EWO

In this drawing the belt is too short for the particular combination of axle to axle length and the diameter of the end wheel. This is called wrap and provides a lot of friction/drag. Using your drawing if the belt comes off Point A on the top and separates from the wheel on the second Point A (middle of the wheel) that will be just about a 90 degree turn. That is very little friction and would be perfect except it then has to make another 90 degree turn to get back on top of the other wheel to get back to the running surface. That second 90 degree turn will be a lot drag and the mill will not be as smooth as it should. On the back end there will be some hop as it comes to the top of the mill. Almost like a ramp.

Ideally, counting from the top of your drawing the belt should leave the wheel around the 7th arrow. That will be the using slightly less than half the wheel on both ends. That is ball park.

If there is a mill you have access too measure from axel to axle, check the diameter of the end wheels, measure the belt length, and/or count the slats taking into account the spacing. Then build from there. With the really nice mills all these measurements are really close. The frames, the slat materials, the belt material and the bed wheels bring uniqueness to the mill from the individual builder. EWO

Good luck. I look forward to seeing it. I will try to do the same. EWO

Were you successful in building your mill?

The frames on the Dog Trotter mills are made from 80/20 extruded aluminum. I've worked with it for years, it's meant for industrial use. A lot of secondary equipment in factories has their frames made out of 80/20. It's EXTREMELY STRONG, DURABLE, and light weight. If GM, Ford, Chrysler and a million other factories use it for their machines then why shouldn't someone making mills? Good luck making your own mill. It's a slippery slope offering a critique on something that you've already stated you cannot afford. Some people do weird things when involved with these dogs. Example, spend $1000 or $1500 on a puppy then buy a HUGE naval ship anchor chain to secure them but use a bullsnap at the end, or a CHOKER COLLAR! Set aside a couple hundred bucks a month and guess what? By the time the puppy is old enough to use the mill, you'll have enough saved to buy a high quality, proven, trusted mill. As far as the Trotters "plastic slats" bowing in the middle? Nothing could be further from the truth. Last time I talked to Bob they were made out of Delrin. That is some of the toughest, most durable stuff on Earth and at the thickness he uses you could drive a car over it and it wouldn't bow in the middle. I agree they are pricey, but they're still selling, so why should he lower the price? I heard Red River Curley is back in business? I guess Greg's daughter and husband are following his old plans. At around $1000 that ain't bad. Good luck with your mill, I hope it works out for you, candy paint and all. But use it cautiously at first, your design and fabrication aren't proven like the ones you mentioned. As with any tool if used improperly or it's mechanically bad you can cause a plethora of damage to yourself and your prized animal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by prairiedog

Were you successful in building your mill?

---

did you finish yours?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Ellis

did you finish yours?

---

Yeah, what ya think Doc?

http://oi66.tinypic.com/2eamihh.jpg

Nice Prariedog! does it work as well as it looks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Ellis

Nice Prariedog! does it work as well as it looks?

---

Works not too bad I guess. I like a more free spinning mill, but it works fine. I'm going to build a new belt with different material, narrower/thinner slats, and lighter hardware. I'm also gong to get some custom brackets made for the main wheels to increase adjustability. Regards.

Nice mill Prairie. What material did you use for the frame and is it sturdy?

Aluminum, and yes it's sturdy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by prairiedog

Yeah, what ya think Doc?

http://oi66.tinypic.com/2eamihh.jpg

---

i have used many belting materials the best imo is baler belt, it takes about 10 keeps for mill to brake in,if the mill travels from a hand push, thats sufficient considering the weight of the dog and 4 legs out put

Nice work Buck Gator, You should put that 'ol Angus on there and see if it really will support a rhino lol! I will try to get a vid. posted of little Charlotte tearing up the mill :) Thanks again for the wonderful mill!

Won't let me view these .....maybe you can pm me the layout...thanks in advance

The Adobe file worked for me. Nice work Buckgator. I look forward to seeing the latest version in person 8)

I recently took on building my first slat mill. It turned out pretty good in my opinion and my dogs run it very well with no issues thus far. I'd like to post pictures of it but I haven't figured out how to do it yet.

Thanks.