I saw a video of Tornado's match, the one that ended in 22 min. She was a perfect dog in the [] imo. The other dog couldn't touch her then she would finish. It's crazy how she went into 3 with no damage done to her.
I saw a video of Tornado's match, the one that ended in 22 min. She was a perfect dog in the [] imo. The other dog couldn't touch her then she would finish. It's crazy how she went into 3 with no damage done to her.
Molly Bee was stolen and if she indeed produced it would have been under the name of another. There was a stretch where every big bad black bitch around was off of Molly Bee. LOL
After a couple breedings to Snooty and Caesar those dogs were bred back to one another and soon most of the dogs that were called 'Molly Bee' was as much Snooty as they were anything. Snooty when bred to the Red Boy dogs made some good dogs. When we crossed those Snooty-Red Boy dogs to the "Molly Bee" dogs we got some good ones again.
The guy that turned me onto was Mr. Edward's go to guy and had some nice ones bred down off of Molly Bee. The family was low percentage but when you had one, you had one, and could ride up and down the road with anyone.
I have often wondered if she had not been stolen and her puppies were attributed to her, whether she was a producer or not? Who knows?
When you say produce better, do you mean being more commercial or known? Because all 3 had offspring and offspring off them that competed and won but weren't mainstream known besides to their local areas. Tornado just didn't get bred enough, the others Molly Bee, Queen and Ladystone all had kids compete and win and produce more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank43
Not directed to me but I will offer up....
Molly Bee had Red Lady and a few more winners. In turn there were some winners but by her not being bred that many times (bred as Molly Bee) the offspring were not passed out to the masses. It was a tight circle not by choice (as Mr. Edwards sold a lot of dogs, even after his death he may still be in the lead, just saying) but because there simply not enough to make a dent in the production world.
And the breedings that were known were not high percentage litters, and that goes to the male used as well. Like Snooty to the Red Boy family was much higher 'good dog per litter' percentage than Snooty to Molly Bee.
The factor in that Mr. Edward's leaned over to at least fifty of his closest friends and said "I'm going to be honest with you, Molly Bee was off so and so and so and so" And those people all know the true breeding of Molly Bee, even though several versions were provided.
So not knowing how she was bred meant (even if she had been bred as Molly Bee) the best route would be best dog to best dog or producing dog to match dog, which does not take long to peter out, thus leaving the impression 'she did not produce'.
If that makes sense.
You're not the first person I've seen hold the opinion that Tornado was a perfect dog in the pit. Her battle record is unbelievable, all the facets & angles of it. Like you said: crazy!Quote:
Originally Posted by skip11
She must have been some war machine. An all-time great, for sure.
Makes total sense. Thanks for sharing all that, the inside scoop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakgrove
I saw Tornado go (10th) dog showed everyone that night that she was game as hell also..
Pit artist, even though she had had ran into a good Giroux dog nothing could hold her back.
North Strong.
I love eyewitness statements like this, thanks for posting. She must have been game going into one of Andre's charges; as I understand it, he had some fine head dogs himself. Tornado is a true legend.
Cool quote at the bottom. Where is it from if you don't mind my asking?
@STA8541
I'm real sorry, I had not seen your question. I don't have plenty time during the week and lately even the weekends are
way too short...(I need/have to call a cpl of ppl for the mills) I will, please bare with me.
As for the quote, it's from a poem from Mackay (English)
Lovely set of words, I'm happy you enjoyed them as well.
As for Tornado's show it was a Giroux bloodline (Via Ti Mousse, Corvino bloodline itself) that was
placed in the box with her. Andre had been dead at that time for over a dozen yrs.
In fact it got so weird in the end, someone actually had Allen stop madness (Tornado) picked up to stop the match so she wouldn't die in the end.
The match was more or less finished (a handle had been done) but a wager was placed that Kenny Allen did not really think much about it.
Which was, Tornado couldn't finish her in the box, so he figured it was as good as done... With a little time.
What he did not take into account was his dog was not used the weather we have up here in the winter, late fall as it was.
At the rate she was going to finish her,, she would have burnt herself out so much, she (they were hoping) would have started to get too cold, with using stored energy being used up hypothermia starts to set in and eventually die from the cold, not the show. It did not help the condition she was in after that battle as well. To me, she showed that night to all that thought she might not be able to take what she dishes out. She sure showed everyone that night, she was as game as any and better than most
Finally (Good dogman) said enough of this bullshyt, either pick up your dog or its over.
We will get a handle and is your turn to scratch, do you want to see if your dog is really Deadgame or prefer a loss, game. Picked up.
Made no difference to me, because after they picked their dog I believe they succeeded with what they wanted to do.
I never got anyone to tell me what happened to Tornado after that match... They said she died a few months later, but I think maybe sooner and they just never said anything about that.
Again this is just my thoughts,i can not prove it, no matter the dogmen up here at the time really believed they succeeded.
Long story short, she was an awesome dog, and after seeing her, I can't imagine her losing to any other female her weight.
Now that's a bold statement as there were some great bitches during her reign and some just before that.2 that come to mind Shady Lady, Q of H's (weight will vary) but quality of bitches ? Extraordinaire
North. Strong
No apologies and no worries man, we're all busy, totally get it. Thank you for your detailed reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Strong
Thanks for the info about the quote, they really are and I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Strong
Wow...can't thank you enough for sharing that story, really appreciate it. She never ceases to amaze, ol Tornado. The more I learn the more awed I am! Accords perfectly with what I heard about Andre's dogs: they will test you, win lose or draw! To me, gameness is more important than an undefeated record, and not just in pit dogs, talking boxing, thoroughbred racing, and so on. When I see "undefeated" I think things like "Who'd he beat?", "How'd he beat em?", and "How many times did he beat em?" Maybe we're just looking at the best of a bunch of stiffs, or maybe we're looking at a frontrunning cur that'll quit if he has to take what he's dishing out (maybe even close to what he's dishing out), or gets tired, or hot, or whatever. Doesn't mean they're not as great as the record indicates either, just that I like to see what's in the tank too. Obviously with Tornado we don't have to guess. I want guts and ability, sure! But ability without guts seems to me not the point of the whole thing. Nice to know Tornado was game as well as athletic and smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Strong
She sure was, and I can't imagine her being licked by any bitch her weight (or smaller) either. An opinion shared by many, I would imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Strong
It is and there sure were and that pair are great as well, no doubt about it; in fact, the latter is why I posted this theoretical match in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Strong
Do you know anything about Ken Allen that you feel comfortable sharing? If not, totally cool. This guy had (or was associated with in some way, not crystal clear on the connections) 3 of my historically favorite dogs: Tornado obviously, Gr. Ch. Robert T, and his son Ch. Robert T Jr. I'd imagine most dogmen would probably give their eyeteeth to have just one hound like this in their whole lives! How in the world did this guy wind up with (or get associated with) THREE all-time great, masterful, longwinded, game, smart, ace head dogs (all of whom have classic wins over super opponents)? Was it just dumb luck? Was he really astute judging breedings? I'm aware the guy had $$$, so maybe he had a big yard and some good blood just nicked by sheer force of numbers? I dunno. I say this because when I hear "all time great dogmen" discussed, rarely do I see Ken's name in there, right or wrong. I just wish I knew more, but you may not know anything more. Wish I coulda been there!
Anyway, thanks again for the fantastic historical account, it was great.