Recovery

I have heard Mr. Mims say that on that night Snooty never had a chance. I can't remember the name but I heard once that someone offered Mr. Brewer the forfeit as Snooty looked bad mid-afternoon.

When controlling the water lots of times a dog will end up dry. If the dog is healthy with no kidney issues or tract issues he will not over-hydrate himself. I add water to the main meal as well as a broth fluid 12 hours out. When the work load starts to increase he will go tot he water bowl when he needs it. Within a few weeks he will hardly touch it as his body 'dials' itself in to a proper water weight.

At the end we count backwards in 30 hour increments from show time til 4 days out. The water intake becomes a part of the daily ration. By then he is pretty much off the water bowl anyway. The weather will also play a part in water intake so one's region/climate will factor in as well.

I would venture a guess to say water (too wet or too dry) has been the demise to a lot of really good dogs over the years. Sometimes they can do well in spite of their human counterpart but it does not happen all that often. Unfortunately, it is usually the other way around. Sometimes I sell my fellow man short, but I would be willing to guess for every dog that wins in spite of his human counterpart there are two that succumb because of poor decisions.

I have a friend that is as country as any person I ever met. His normal every day conversation has all of the "old folks use to say" phrases already included. We were talking about this very subject about CH. Caballo (Garner's Dynomite bred). He was done once on weight, once too high and once too light as the owner picked up a weight and then moved his dog to that weight. For whatever reasoning Caballo overcame all that was put in front of him, including the one person that was suppose to be behind/with him. My buddy said, "The only thing Caballo could not do was drive the truck and count the money, everything else he handled himself". (in so many words)

Not a lot of Caballo's floating around out there.

EWO

Great posts guys.

Ditto gotap_d. Do not see how giving multi dosages of Dex or Azium/water pills (sometimes both) to dry out a dog helps very much either. Trying to dry a dog out that late in the game will pull out large amounts of life sustaining electrolytes. Once these Electrolytes are depleted, a dog goes stale and it takes days of rest to bring a dog back to just feeling good on the chain.

What one is attempting to do is keep any excess of moisture from building up in the dog's lungs. This plus other problems will crop up when a dog is to wet and put under hard stress. Since a dog has to sweat through it's tongue and mouth. That is additional moisture that is breathed into the lungs while trying to stay in holds. Will hear that dreaded blubbering sloshing sound coming from the sides of the dog's mouth. Dog is trying to stay in holds, results dog looses control of it's cooling ability, blows hot, blows out,game over.

The 28 to 30 hour feeding is allowing for all stool to be passed out of the bowels. Four sure things that will run a dog hot. Any gut fat, excessive moisture in the lungs/ dog just wet over all/ and any stool still in the gut track.

We used 1cc to 3cc of Predef 2x aqueous suspension. Not 100% sure of which amount anymore. One would have to do some pre keeps and see what works over all best. Under skin at lower top neck area 12 hours from weigh in. Takes care of all the above (except proper feeding time and cleaning out) and much more. Without over drying or doping the dog. Will not make a dog game or if not properly peaked can not fix that problem either. Will bring a properly worked dog on point, can only be used at a precise time and in a one dog pulling show. It is what it is. LOL

At twelve hours let dog clean out/ and drink first. One will know how much water/etc dog is to drink at that point( At least one should know). Give predef 2x shot and put up. At 6 hours walk and clean out,let dog drink amount of water one knows it needs. But do not put out a bucket of water and pay no attention. Dog will drink a lot more if allowed. One has to be in control of what is going on, at all times at this point.

I got Maurice Carver and some others on the other site all fired up a good while back. When I tried to explain some of this, they could not wrap their mind around a 28 to 30 hour feed cycle on those last four days. Reason why was they fed their dogs solid food in AM and PM. We only fed the main feed in the PM and gave the needed fluids 12 hours before that main PM work out. That main PM workout over time got to around 3 to 4 hours long with all factors to be done added together. The dog did not work continuous with no breaks for four hours.

In the early AM, dog got up to 2 1/2 to 5 miles of hand walking and hand rub. This kept the dog limber,worked out soreness, check out feet etc., bonding time and see how dog really felt over all.

IMHO,hope some of this helps. All medical shots to be given by a licensed Vet at least that was what we are told. LOL Cheers

Good posts. I always enjoy these.

Once upon a long time ago I worked straight nights. After work I weighed the dog. I worked the dogs in the AM, fed a fatty, broth-like supplemented solution. I slept the day away and weighed the dog in the evening. His weight would determine the amount of food trying to target his working weight for the next day.

Way back then we used dex or fluid pills to pull off water closer to the end. They can work if they are given precisely on time every day.

Straight nights turned to rotating 12 hour shift works, working both days and nights. It is a real challenge to do dogs on this schedule because there is no routine for the dog, or pretty much his routine is not having a routine. Being creative with rest days to line up what he needs with how I worked is always a struggle.

I got away from dex and fluid type pills after that as I could not time out their effectiveness on my schedule.

On the 12 hour night shifts it was similar to working straight nights I just flip flopped. I worked and fed the supplement in the morning and the main feeding happened about 8 hours later. It took a little while to dial in again. On 12 hour days I worked the dog in the evenings and fed a regular feeding. This throws the dog off a little so the next day is a rest day. The week I am on days he gets 1/2 the work and twice the rest. This is not ideal so I plan the keep around this week being early on and again late in the keep.

As how this pertains to recovery, I found the dogs do really well coming off a hard day with an extra days rest. With all the fuel and the extra rest the dog is busting at the seams on the next work day.

Based on my schedule I can peak the dog (wherever he is in his conditioning at that time) each week. I can load, and get up to and touching the over loaded line and feel comfortable knowing there is an extra day of rest built in for the next day.

On straight nights there were occasions when I would go to the dog and he did not meet me ripping and roaring to go. It is easy to type on here to give him a days rest but in the moment it is easier to put a little more on him. Sometimes that little more is too much. On the shift schedule I am forced to rest him an extra day about 4 times during 8 weeks of work.

EWO

what kind of affect do you think Lasix, given about 6-8 hours prior to showtime, would have on a dog?
Saw a real good one, strong, hard mouth hog dog have this done to him. He overcome this, but I would love to hear thoughts on this

Ditto No Quarter Kennel. Could not at that moment remember the name of the drug Lasix. So called it a water pill,it does come that way. My blood pressure medication has Lasix added to it. I have to take every day a liquid Trace mineral/magnesium combo supplement. To counter act the muscle weaking effects of the lasix. Many other man made drugs remove precious minerals/vitamins/electrolytes from the body. The Less anyone uses of these meds the better off. Yet as we age many of these medication may be necessary.

If one today is using the lasix on their dogs. Adding this Trace mineral product might help with preserving the electrolytes lost.

The Predef 2X aqueus suspenion product took care of the excess moisture problem, plus much more. So in the keep or end of the keep. You did not have to dry out the dog with Dex/Lasix or other type water pulling drugs. When too much fluid is pulled to fast. Precious electrolytes come out as well.

How long did that dog have to perform? That hard mouth may have kept it out of enough trouble to put the other dog behind. Enough to over power the other dog and win.

Regardless of what I say or think. One has to put their dogs through as many prekeeps as possible and try these various things out. Only real way to know, what would work or not work for you. Any dog that is to be game tested should be put through a prekeep.

V.J. tried out Ozzie Stevens steroid keep and screwed up two of his male dogs. Yet he saw some great benefits along the way. So he just dialed it down to a very low minimal amount once a week mixed with vitamin B12. This helped the dog with faster recovery and kept dog in a anabolic state. By doing it that way did not put excessive muscle/fluids on the dog or bother the sex nature of the female dogs. Some dog men I knew that went all out with the steroids looking for a short cut to hard work. Stacked these steroids and dosages close to what a full grown man would use. Overtime proved to be a very bad idea.

Hard natural work and natural feed is always the safest way to go. When trying out new things, do them in a prekeep type scenario. One can learn so much more that way. Cheers

Ditto Frosty Paws. I agree own your Jenny work. I think of the jenny work like Don Mayfield compared it. A Wolf or Coyote out on the open plains dog trotting for miles.

One way to get a dog that wants to just run all out on a Jenny and not learning to rate itself. Is to put a heap of saw dust in the four North/South/East/West corners of the track. The dog will run hard,hit the saw dust pile and bog down. Pick up speed to next saw dust pile, bog down again. After a few turns of this or until the dog has broken the piles down some. Dog will usually slow down and do a steady dog trot from then on.

I also preferred a steady dog trot on the round table. With some occasional speed ups inspired by a rabbit in a cage. LOL One usually builds wind and stamina in a dog with the longer workouts of fast dog trotting from road work,Jenny work, or trotting on a extra large round table.

The anerobic conditioning part would come after the aerobic mill work. Doing the chain pull etc. like EWO describes. I agree with Lemm the mill maker about doing any type exercise with or without Steroids. To build up muscles on a dog like a body builder. Having a powerful strong dog comes best from the brood pen. I have never seen any 100% body builders do well in any boxing/collegiate wrestling/cage fighter events.

With all said, get the best exercise equipment one can afford and use on the amount of land mass one lives on. Then do prekeeps till you figure out what works best for your particular dogs and the surrounding environment the dogs live in. Overtime the way you skin a cat might be better than your competitor's method of cat skinning. LOL Cheers

Lasix/water pills work. The problem is that they work. Once given they will continue to work even to the point the dog has lost valuable fluid/electrolytes.

The timing and the individual dog at that point of his conditioning coupled with his current water content will all factor in to how well it works.

I'm not knocking on the pill, or the intent, as a lot of people have used it, but I would think if removing water by means of a pill that close to the show odds are one missed with the last 6/8 weeks of effort.

I'm not even sure how one would pre-keep practice with it as the dog is a completely different animal from Pre-keep to 8 week finished.

I thought about goin that route a few times and know people who have used them 24 hours out but I never felt comfortable with the accuracy of how much water one pill would remove. When the dog is worked down and fed down to an ideal weight he will hydrate himself adequately. He will in turn piss the excess naturally.

I have always been weary of upsetting that balance and him pissing himself to a lesser state of hydration.

EWO

Ditto EWO. Why, when ever I would mention the use of the PreDef 2X aqueous liquid medication. Was wise to do only a one event dog show. With a losing your forfeit clause for not being on time for the weigh in. Once a dog comes on point,this will only last for a short while. Every hour that passes the dog starts going stale.

Certain medications like the various steroids and the above mentioned medications like lasix. Will speed that process up. So at a point where it helps, over a certain time it starts to work against the dog's over all conditioning.

At multi dog shows, unless having the privilege to be first. All the dogs that followed,even if properly conditioned would come up to wet or to dry or not cleaned out properly. So some performed well while others did not. Sometimes to a point that the better dog lost to the lesser dog. Leaving thoughts of what just happened on many of these dog men's minds. Hear remarks like my dog has done better off the chain. Even to the point of feeling like their dog had been rubbed. When highly unlikely it had been.

My deceased friend Sonny Shropshire had worked a dog for Tar Heel Matt. Ozzie Stevens had come down and all of us got to personally spend some time with him. Sonny had used some of the Ozzie steroid keep on this dog. When I arrived at Sonny's place checked the dog over. Dog looked alright and I asked Sonny if he was going first. Said no was maybe third on the line up. I said well i hope your dog does not peak to early if other dog pulls go to long.

As Murphy's law would have it. We were in the motel room everything was quite and dog was in it's large shipping crate. We were all quietly talking,Sonny's mind on his coming up dog pull. All of a sudden that dog went bonkers and started rolling that crate across the floor. One of the darnedest things I had ever saw. Thought a Tasmanian devil had crawled up in that box. LOL

Sonny finally calmed the dog down and took it for a walk. When he returned the dog was not acting as sharp and alive as earlier when put up and took to the dog show site. Luck was with Sonny and his dog did win that night.

Was supposed to have been a private multi show. We abided with the rules of a limited number of persons per side. The guy that owned the building, was charging a gate fee, decided to invite half the town. Building was packed out with who knows who. Was glad to leave that place after Sonny won. Did not hang around for the rest of those dog pulls.

In closing only those who are big risk takers would participate or be around any multi dog shows today. Even back in the late 70's a FBI agent was attending most of the multi dog shows and even selling hand made dog harness etc. Cheers

Lasix will deplete your dog of potassium. If given IV, it will also decrease your dogs blood pressure.