"TESTED HARD" --- What Does That Mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waccamaw

the true test is the actual hunt

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I don't think there is such thing as a "true" test.

For example, say if two dogs are hooked ... one dog gets a super keep and comes in at his best weight ... while another dog gets a terrible keep and comes in weak and dry ... was that really the "truest" evaluation of the dogs? It was a "real match," but I don't think it was a fair evaluation of the second dog. (I am sure, as a breeder, you have had people do your dogs wrong ... where the dog didn't do so well ... but yet you knew the dog was better than what he showed, IF he would have come in better shape.)

There are also plenty of dogs that do great in one match, but hang it up the second time around. There are even a few dogs who show desperately game the first time ... but that was all they had ... and can't do that again for the second time.

Does a "win" mean a dog won't quit its next time out?
Does a "win" mean a dog is guaranteed to win its next time out?

IMO, the answer is no to both questions.

Jack


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waccamaw

the true test is the actual hunt

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In my eyes this is only true 2 a certian degree. U have 2 factor in the hunts that go 2:15 but neither hound needed a band aid
afterwards.

wildchild

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wildchild

In my eyes this is only true 2 a certian degree. U have 2 factor in the hunts that go 2:15 but neither hound needed a band aid
afterwards.
wildchild

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What about this Wildchild?: is it harder for a dog to make it to :50 in top physical condition in cool weather, or is it harder for a dog to go :50 a little fat in the summer?

Which effort do you think tests the dog's will power the most? ;)

Jack

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when i say the true test is the actual hunt ,i am talking about to hunters that are both top notch and know their dogs .what we call head hunting ,look for the best comp.and the rest of your post relates to what i said about a good dog in the hands of an idiot is a doomed dog ,dog to dry ,sick ,under wght,worms ,low blood count .only a true idiot would take a dog hunting like this ,then say he is a cur when it was the mans fault.what i am saying is if he is in great shape ,all the way around and he hunts with another lets just say C- HAM then you know he was tested above and beyond ,where bas if it was a young punk with his first dog then you know that is no test .

[quote=What about this Wildchild?: is it harder for a dog to make it to :50 in top physical condition in cool weather, or is it harder for a dog to go :50 a little fat in the summer?

Which effort do you think tests the dog's will power the most? ;)

Jack

.[/quote]

A dog a litte fat in the summer going :50 is gamer in my eyes than the top shaped 1 in the cool going the same :50
I truly feel that gameness is not a matter of the :50 mins " or any time alone" but by the amount of adversary each charge has 2 over come in said :50 mins. Thats where i belive most get it confused.

wildchild

The biggest part in the Test is the conditioning.
Everything your dogs has relies on his conditioning and endurance.
A dog is like a human. For example lets use boxing.
You are not going to put a boxer in a ring that has been out the gym for awhile.
why??? simply because he or she is in no condition to compete.
I made the claim that the ability also relies on the conditioning of a dog because a boxer who has not been conditioned or prepaired physically will not compete at its full potential because while in the ring. Without conditioning your arms and legs become fatigue, same thing with a dog, its mouth, strengh, ablility, endourance all relies on the conditioning part on the keep

I think testing "Hard" is a waste because i see it as in why test a dog "Hard" if the dog isnt prepaired or conditioned to be tested hard, while in his real test you can make an evaluation because your pet will be in some type of its peak. Take it how you want to but I have seen many people loose great pets like this, coming from experience

Hope this help a little bit

jack have you seen the thread on the other board basically asking the same question? there is a video involved

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waccamaw

when i say the true test is the actual hunt ,i am talking about to hunters that are both top notch and know their dogs .what we call head hunting ,look for the best comp.and the rest of your post relates to what i said about a good dog in the hands of an idiot is a doomed dog ,dog to dry ,sick ,under wght,worms ,low blood count .only a true idiot would take a dog hunting like this ,then say he is a cur when it was the mans fault.what i am saying is if he is in great shape ,all the way around and he hunts with another lets just say C- HAM then you know he was tested above and beyond ,where bas if it was a young punk with his first dog then you know that is no test .

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I agree with what you're saying Sonny, which kind of underscores my point. There are so many variables involved that when a person says his dog was "tested hard," it really means nothing.

However, when a dogman who's been associated with multiple top-shelf animals says, "This right here is a really good dog," and the proceeds to tell you why, meaning he explains the specific great qualities this dog has, that carries the most weight, to me anyway.

For example, if a guy who repeatedly and consistently breeds winning, high-pressure kidney dogs ... and he tells me, "This right here is one of the baddest kidney dogs I have ever had in my career," this tells me a whole lot more about what to expect from the dog ... than somebody who's never bred a winner saying his doggie (that he just bought) was "tested hard" :roll:

Jack


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by wildchild

A dog a litte fat in the summer going :50 is gamer in my eyes than the top shaped 1 in the cool going the same :50
I truly feel that gameness is not a matter of the :50 mins " or any time alone" but by the amount of adversary each charge has 2 over come in said :50 mins. Thats where i belive most get it confused.
wildchild

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Very well said, good sir 8-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YigYang

The biggest part in the Test is the conditioning.
Everything your dogs has relies on his conditioning and endurance.
A dog is like a human. For example lets use boxing.
You are not going to put a boxer in a ring that has been out the gym for awhile.
why??? simply because he or she is in no condition to compete.
I made the claim that the ability also relies on the conditioning of a dog because a boxer who has not been conditioned or prepaired physically will not compete at its full potential because while in the ring. Without conditioning your arms and legs become fatigue, same thing with a dog, its mouth, strengh, ablility, endourance all relies on the conditioning part on the keep
I think testing "Hard" is a waste because i see it as in why test a dog "Hard" if the dog isnt prepaired or conditioned to be tested hard, while in his real test you can make an evaluation because your pet will be in some type of its peak. Take it how you want to but I have seen many people loose great pets like this, coming from experience
Hope this help a little bit

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Good point to bring up YigYang.

I agree, there is no question that top conditioning brings out the best potential in any performance animal. Absolutely. However, wouldn't you agree that overcoming adversity is another matter entirely?

In other words, I agree that a dog in top condition going :50 is going to put on "a better performance" than he would if pulled off the chain ... but the point I am making is it will be harder for that dog to go :50 while not in shape. When checking for gameness, adversity is what challenges "the will to continue," so being tired as hell (through lack of condition) will be a bigger game test for a dog than will being fresh as a daisy through optimal condition, thanks to the dog being in the best shape of his life.

So, yes, being in top shape will bring out the best in any dog, no question. However, being out of shape will challenge a dog's "will to continue" more quickly, and thus will let you see just how game your dog is a whole lot sooner, thus minimizing the trauma because you don't have to sit there and watch them for 2 hours before they start to slow down.

This brings up another matter, which is AIR, or natural stamina. Some dogs have great natural air, and can actually go :50 no problem because of this. In fact, one old man I know (who's been doing dogs since the mid-60s) said this to me: "Jack, if any dog doesn't have the natural wind to go a good strong hour, hard, right off the chain, then I don't need that f---ing dog."

And he has been associated with some of the greatest dogs in the history of the game ...

Jack


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