And here's another question:
Should showing EXTREME GAMENESS qualify a dog for DOY Candidacy?
VOTE HERE! :-bd
Or forever hold your peace :censored:
Printable View
And here's another question:
Should showing EXTREME GAMENESS qualify a dog for DOY Candidacy?
VOTE HERE! :-bd
Or forever hold your peace :censored:
Being an extremely game dog is what every bulldog should possess. Being extremely game and talented and facing the same adversaries is stepping it up to an elite level.
Extremely game dogs already have an award system in place GIS.
I think to carry the prestigious title of "Dog of the Year" that dog should be the exception to the rule. That dog should do what no other dog within that same calendar year has done. They aren't all going to be GR CH's who beat other GR CH DOY'S like GR CH TITERE. So IMO to truly be considered the DOY they should stand out in front of the rest of the candidates.
S_B
Why not. But I could never vote for showing gameness that I didn't witness.
Exactly, that is why imo the performance record is what speaks to the quality of a DOY.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nut
If you're not going to trust others' opinions on gameness, how can you trust their opinions on ability?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nut
If people have produced better, winninger dogs than you ... might their opinions carry more weight than yours?
If 30 people at a huge convention ALL give a dog accolades for its extreme gameness, do you think this carries more weight than "your" opinion on extreme gameness?
Jack
High ability dogs also have titles in place (BIS/CH/GR CH) ... yet they get DOY consideration too ... so why shouldn't the exceptionially-game dogs of our sport also have a title for their "over and above" displays of extreme gameness?Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
Yes, Titere did beat a 6xW/DOY ... but did he belly-crawl, after being a mile behind for 3 hours, losing half his blood supply, on two broken legs? :shocked:
There are dogs who did these things ... don't you think they deserve Extraordinary Consideration also?
Jack
Jack I never mentioned this in the previous topic for DOY but the way I'd like to see it done is every year we vote amongst ourselves for these three categories and three prizes are given out (usually a small trophy), each year it is the job of the previous years category winner to provide the prize for the new winner but that bits not important.
We have :
The dog of the year award (the outright most awesome DOY)
Gamest dog of the year award (for a dog that showed to be deep deep game, usually dead game)
Kennels of the year (the kennels that showed and achieved a lot within the year)
The last one would be the hardest to come up with I think as a lot won't want to divulge too much and understandably so.
Gameness is something we all want our dogs to have but many times a dog that shows extreme gameness is on the losing side of the contest. Some do show that gameness and come out the winner and either case are awarded GIS. Doy is reserved to that special animal who shows that ability to not really get put behind and win convincingly in each and every contest such as the Titere's, The Awesome Beasts, the Barracudas. Doy is reserved for those truly special animals who IMO don't have to show extreme gameness
Another good idea, Macker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macker
I will amend the names and suggest we have the following:
Dog of the Year
Game Dog of the Year
Kennel of the Year
There has never been any designation for our gamest-of-game dogs, which (if this is the essence of the breed) is a travesty, really.
I guess this distinction can best be shown (IMO) by the fact that, yeah, Jeep beat Homer, but I would have walk passed Jeep every time my bitch came in heat and bred to Homer :idea:
Jack
I vote No but to me, extreme gameness is only one of the factors that could make a dog DOY. Also the title DOY should not be based on only performance but who were the opponents they went up against and maybe even who the person that's behind the dogs that they went up against.
They have a title of their own Jack, GIS. Like Mister said some of the gamest dogs to ever crawl didn't' have the ability to win. Often times when a dog shows extremely game they either were outclassed ability wise or they were neutralized by an equal opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
S_B
I'll add to what I previously stated...a DOY title should be an elite animal, one who possess ALL of the things that make up a great animal.
Performance (beating equally titled dogs)
Ability and Smarts
&
Gameness!
S_B
Quote:
Originally Posted by MISTER
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
I guess no one actrually read what I said, so, once again, we already have titles for "ability" also: do not the titles of BIS / Ch / Gr Ch already reward ability?
So, following your logic, why do we even need DOY?
Isn't Dog of the Year to separate the best-of-the-best?
If we're going to go over and above the already-existing titles of BIS/CH/GR CH, and add another title (Dog of the Year) ... for ability ... why don't we *also* give some extra title to the extremest of extreme game dogs for all the GIS winners?
Also, to say that just because a dog lost, "it doesn't have the ability to win," is a pretty far stretch.
Ozzie's Homer didn't have the ability to win, against Jeep, at 2 lb below his best weight, C/H by Stepps (as opposed to fighting at his best weight 44 lb, in Ozzie's hands), but that doesn't mean Ch Homer "didn't have the ability to win" ... AT ALL ... Homer just didn't have it that day, at that weight, in those hands. But his gameness was so extreme as to be remembered, historically, more than 99.99% of any Gr Ch ever.
So let me say this again: we already have titles for ability: CH/Gr Ch/BIS ... and DOY ... that is 4 different ways to confer glory to winners ... and yet we only have ONE way to confer glory to our GAME dogs :-O :-q
That sucks IMO.
Why shouldn't there be equal consideration given to the extremest of game dogs of our sport?
The more I think about it, the more the title of Game Dog of the Year is a title that is long, long, long overdue :-? :-bd
Jack
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
my bad jack I sent you a pm...most definitely after all these are gamedogs...that it is the number one trait we should all be looking for to begin with!!!
Focus on the fact that Homer did lost. Can't just assumed that he would've could've won if he was in different hands and at the correct weight. Not saying you don't have a point. All I'm saying is that the fact is that Homer did lost.
For gamest dog of year I'll go with CH.Lotto he showed what a game dog is suppose to be. Or even CH.Texas damn it I'm rambling now lol
Yeah, I could swear another name these dogs go by is GAME Dogs (not "ability" dogs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushman
Again, what Titere did is remarkable ... but, again, would he take a killing, and belly-crawl at the 3-hr mark, on two broken legs, losing half his blood supply.
IMO, the GAME dogs who have done things like this are no less remarkable ... and they deserve our highest HONORS also ... not just a "footnote" :idea:
Jack
I don't need your help in what to focus on, son.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed
And we all know Homer lost, so you're repeating the obvious, non-thinking facts.
I am not responsible if you don't know enough to realize what a different weight, and a different keep, can bring out in a dog :idea:
Did he lose in 2014?Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
Yup I agree, for "gamest DOY" but not for over all best DOY.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
"GAME DOG OF THE YEAR" that's what up!!!I have a buddy up North and they had a bad ass little dog who was killing his opponents in rolls.he never made it to the Big Dance because he would not scratch.he was a killer but would not scratch.they did the right thing and culled him,and moved on.Gotta B GAME
I do agree Jack an exceptionally game dog deserves recognition. If it is a matter of another prestigious title being awarded to an animal that goes beyond what most consider game, then of course I'm all for it.
But I was under the impression you were strictly speaking about DOY?
S_B
Again, not saying it doesn't matter...it does. But we can't guarantee that the results will be different either can we? :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Texas just lost to CH.Reno and Lotto lost to Titere on Titere 6th so yes 2014. My take is let's do it separate DOY is about performance we all should know if our dogs are game before showing, we are banking on ability,mouth and such when it comes to the show. now if it goes deep we all want to win on gameness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
Well, originally, my thought was ... "is ability all there is to greatness?"
Is beating 3 mediocre Champions, where you're never really behind, a "greater accomplishment" than beating ONE devastating Champion, suffering incredible punishment, taking it all, and coming from WAY BACK to win on a huge HEART + Ability?
Beating 3 Champions can mean a dog only has great ability, but yet never had to show HEART.
Doesn't true greatness imply HEART also?
Isn't the display of awesome heart the distinction between a front-runner and a legend?
Maybe the idea of a second title, for gameness, is the best way to go ... but my original thought was, "Okay X dog may not have won 6x, but he did display a level of gameness that the 6xW Y never showed ..."
Is true greatness only about # of wins?
Jack
I would also cull one that is game to the bone but lacks mouth, ability, stamina, intelligent, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushman
True greatness should encompass all of the accolades we are speaking of here.
That is why it is my opinion a DOY should be the cream of the crop.
The "Gamest" dog of the year only needs his/her gameness to be a consideration.
A truly great thought provoking topic as usual Jack!
S_B
:-OQuote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed
A truly elite dog may never be put in the situation where it had to show heart...so I believe having two separate titles would be best.
True greatness could be a dog who won one show but showed gameness in coming back and beating a bad ass dog. Beating mediocre dogs mean nothing to be honest, I guess it comes down to who and what a said dog accomplishments.Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
S_B don't get me wrong here...gameness is the base but it doesn't have to end there.Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_B
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
There is something sorely lacking in a system that doesn't recognize the SPIRIT in these dogs.
The title DOY implies "Greatness" ... and part of greatness is ability/quality of opposition, etc., ... but part of greatness is ALSO unbelievable heart.
Sure, a game plug might get GIS, and we can admire his spirit, but he isn't really a great dog. I understand that.
However, some dogs *are* high ability animals, that also show incredible heart, and overcome incredible adversity, to win over some incredible opponents.
This begs the question, would every Grand Champion take its death .. or be able to overcome the same abuse?
Maybe Dog X can't win 6, and Dog Y can ... but yet Dog X did show incredible heart ... whereas Dog Y has not.
I guess I am just thinking out loud :lol:
They should get an award but, who wants to have a yard full of belly crawlers? The way youre thinking is or at least im gathering is that bc an animal is so good to not get wrecked but can wreck his opposition he's less important than a belly crawler? Ive had a truly deep game animal nd at the time there was a BONA FIDE BAD ASS around nd I chose not to run with him bc I felt deep in my gut i wouldve gotten bit down before the belly crawling game scratches could begin.... The name of the breed is Game Dogs, and reason for matching dogs is to Win not out game the other...Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
I fully agree there should be a gamest award just as there's a doy award and the deep game dogs do deserve the nod to what theyve achieved or tried too... Would Titere belly crawl? Idk 7 TRIED AND 7 FAILED end of story lol
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by MISTER
I understand what you're saying ...
I hear you and understand what you mean! Most 6xw won't show game most aren't breeding game dogs that's why most shows are over in before 45. I prefer a game dog, one of the gamest I ever seen Showtime's CH.Roscoe. came from way behind to beat a monster he was the definition of Gameness
Titere was in a cast before #5 , he over came a lot heart worms and such.
Who did he beat?Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
On his last he beat 315 Boys Burner who was a monster I'll have to think back this was a few years back.
Now with all that said, I think BLACKROCK'S EL NAZI is prolly the gamest SOB of the DECADE LOL and if an award is given out he should be noted as a top canadite...Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack