Blends

I know what I'm asking will seem crazy to most, probably not even get understood but work with me I'm typing this on an IPad I just receive so I wont be able to fully explain r type it out.. Does anybody notice that some lines tend to blend well without taking away or adding too much and some lines just don't. Some crosses just haven't been as successful?

For instance, Bolio, Redboy, Jeep, Boomerang tend to cross really well with just about anything and can be linebred and inbred and remain strong. I notice a lot of people use crosses looking for something but few maintain those crosses to years of success. One line I have seen that doesn't always cross well(for this convo meaning it overrides) is the Eli dogs. I mean the older type of Eli dogs the powerful hard biting rough dogs not the crossed up ones but the ones that were bred to be like Bullyson & Eli Jr.. When people think of mouth and roughness it used to be get Eli.. But when you add Eli, it seems to offset your uniform and take over. I have seen eli crosse with Bolio with success but heavy Buck dogs crossed with Eli I haven't.. Any thoughts?

Prepotency

THE guy that taught me how to read a ped always told me to look in the back of a ped a take it from their cause chances are that for line that go together it may be related in some way . Most Doggers don't take the time to do that they breed best to best and assume that it should click in some cases that works but in others it doesn't . in alot of cases you can actually pollute a line instead of inhancing that line .It takes time and an eye to able to every time you breed rether it be in-breeding - line breeding or out-crossing to put the right pieces together.

Like that response hw215...
I have a jeep/redboy-boomerang/eli bitch, I just got. She is nice, real easy keeper... Has a brother that's a 2xer or champ. 8-)

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Originally Posted by FACE203

Like that response hw215...
I have a jeep/redboy-boomerang/eli bitch, I just got. She is nice, real easy keeper... Has a brother that's a 2xer or champ. 8-)

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thanks FACE203 the guy that taught me wouldn't let me walk his dog unless i could tell him how the dog was breed who it was off of to prove to him that i was serius about learning about these hounds then he would teach me a little more that what i lot of people don't do is learn the line and then take it from there the first thing they say is the ped to make the dog true but in order to create what you have and to carry it to the next level it's best to know were it came from. so you can put the puzzle back together again .

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Originally Posted by CitySwamp

I know what I'm asking will seem crazy to most, probably not even get understood but work with me I'm typing this on an IPad I just receive so I wont be able to fully explain r type it out.. Does anybody notice that some lines tend to blend well without taking away or adding too much and some lines just don't. Some crosses just haven't been as successful?
For instance, Bolio, Redboy, Jeep, Boomerang tend to cross really well with just about anything and can be linebred and inbred and remain strong. I notice a lot of people use crosses looking for something but few maintain those crosses to years of success. One line I have seen that doesn't always cross well(for this convo meaning it overrides) is the Eli dogs. I mean the older type of Eli dogs the powerful hard biting rough dogs not the crossed up ones but the ones that were bred to be like Bullyson & Eli Jr.. When people think of mouth and roughness it used to be get Eli.. But when you add Eli, it seems to offset your uniform and take over. I have seen eli crosse with Bolio with success but heavy Buck dogs crossed with Eli I haven't.. Any thoughts?

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Yes, I would have to agree with trajan337, and the one-word answer would be prepotency.

Some bloodlines are prepotent for gameness, while others are not. I think a lot of times Eli dogs can be prepotent for throwing curs as much as mouth, because there were a lot of hardmouth curs in the family. I am not being disrespectful, just honest. Bully quit, Son Jr. quit, Benny Bob quit, etc. But they were also devastating dogs who obliterated previous opponents before they met the dogs they quit to. Even though this comparison has been overdone, I think comparing these dogs to Mike Tyson is valid. Tyson had loads of ability, and loads of punch, but he had questionable heart compared to the historically truly tough men of boxing. There are simply some fighters who "look awesome" when they're in there with someone they're clearly superior to, but who don't seem to shine as bright when they get paired with a truly badass opponent, who can take it, and who won't stop firing back with bad intentions of his own.

Still, Tyson was exciting as hell to watch, he had a HUGE fan base, and he also carried with him the ability to KO a man at any time. There is value in that! We don't breed humans for specific purposes, but when this kind of explosive ability is seen in dogs, it is not hard to imagine (since we can breed for abilities in dogs) that there are A LOT of people who would want to "add a little Tyson blood" to their "Ali" blood, or vice versa. However, even in its pure form, I also know that there have been DG Eli dogs, so it's not like the line is all curs, but I don't think anyone is under the impression it is a high-percentage-game bloodline.

Ultimately, when "crossing" or "blending" lines, we are introducing variables, which means (generally) we will get a wide disparity of looks, abilities, as well as levels of gameness. However, as you mentioned, sometimes when we do a cross it just "blends well," as for instance when Ch Yellow John was bred to Tant's Miss Jocko to get Gr Ch Yellow, Gr Ch JR, Ch Rocko, and Ch Sassy. When you see percentages like that, that is when you "drop anchor" and base your line on a great cross! Same thing when Gr Ch Yellow was bred to Dolly and produced Gr Ch Mayday, Ch Dragon Lady, and Ch Choice ... once again, clearly, we have a blend that worked well across the board.

In the end, you "get what you breed for," so if a person is breeding to badass dogs that come from "hit-n-miss" breedings, then he is going to get a lot of "misses" in his own breedings, with an occasional "hit" as well. However, if a person breeds only to badass dogs that also come from high-percentage litters, while he phases-out even good dogs that come from low-percentage litters ... and if that person continually moves forward only with the best individuals that likewise came from high-percentage litters ... that man's dogs will simply become prepotent for consistent quality ... whereas the guy who has a good dog that comes form a mostly-discard litter will never enjoy that kind of prepotency, because he simply isn't breeding for consistency, what he's breeding for is the "occasionally-good dog" out of a mostly-lousy litter.

And this can be true of ANY line, including my own. There are some aspects of my own family that are much more prepotent than others, and therefore it is up to me as a breeder to continue to go forward with the best dogs from my best whole litters, rather than trying to try to go forward with a decent dog out of a mostly-lousy litter.

Jack


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Great post Jack, I couldn't have explained it no better.

Great post Jack.

Another reason, one not many doggers like hearing is the fact that 99% of the dogs have bogus pedigrees. And as long as doggers keep breeding to the names on the papers that come with the dogs they are going to have continued frustration.

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Originally Posted by STONEWALL

Great post Jack.
Another reason, one not many doggers like hearing is the fact that 99% of the dogs have bogus pedigrees. And as long as doggers keep breeding to the names on the papers that come with the dogs they are going to have continued frustration.

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Thank you ... and you bring up another good point ... because what you said merely bespeaks the advantage in creating, establishing, and maintaining your own good bloodline. Putting in the time to establish one's own bloodline is something that, eventually, puts a person in the position where he doen't have any more questions about "who" was the immediate ancestor ... nor "was s/he good or not? ... simply because he KNOWS (not thinks he knows) the answer to all these questions.

Jack

Bump up for 2020...